David, that is misreading what I said.
If we want to create a new feature then it is a module makers responsibility to create the markup.
The markup which lends itself to toggling display is proper xml markup
If there are modules which use ZWNJ or else currently then this is fine and good but in that form they can not and should not get the benefit of such a feature. They would require updating.
Sent from Outlook for iOS
From: David F. Haslam <df.has...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 1:40 pm
To: Peter von Kaehne <ref...@gmx.net>; SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel@crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividers
But we can help them towards that goal by making module development
less onerous.Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 1:40 pm
To: Peter von Kaehne <ref...@gmx.net>; SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel@crosswire.org>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividers
Then perhaps they might use our derived module to help them check their translation at each stage
without them having to keep asking us to rebuild the module for them with all the demanding file format transformations such a task entails.
There's nothing that forbids us to accept a module containing ZWSP characters per se.
And, btw, existing CrossWire module KhmerNT contains 223,198 ZWSP.
Since it was released on 2012-02-15 nobody has batted an eyelid that it used this means to mark lexical word boundaries.
Not you, not me, not anyone in the core development team.
So it's a bit rich to say over 13 years later that "it is our job to .... and apply it".
Our ministry as a Society should include actively assisting translators, not merely distributing their finished product.
Aside: We've not heard from any other team members yet.
David
On 2025-05-01 13:07, Peter von Kaehne
wrote:
I would not expect any Bible translator to do anything.
if they tell us they used whatever to mark up whatever then it is our job as module team tk take whatever and find the appropriate semantic mark up and apply it.
This is not different.
Peter
Sent from Outlook for iOSFrom: sword-devel <sword-devel-boun...@crosswire.org> on behalf of David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 12:59 pm
To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum <sword-devel@crosswire.org>
Cc: David Haslam <df.has...@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividersHi Peter,
Undoubtedly, but we cannot demand or expect most Bible translators to be XML afficionados.
It's even difficult to teach some members of a translation team to use the ZWSP properly.
"If you cannot see it, key it again" can so easily become the modus operandi.Witness the following in the same chapter prior to my involvement.After I replaced all ZWSP by MIDDLE DOT, just look at the tangle!!!
See attached text file.
So we should do "belt and braces" to help the weak.Also called "going the extra mile". ๐
But worry not. My feedback is already helping the Khmer translation team.
Best regards,
David
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
On Thursday, May 1st, 2025 at 12:47 PM, Peter von Kaehne <ref...@gmx.net> wrote:
I think this is not difficult per se, but it should be properly encoded.
<w> seems correct, using zero with characters seems not correct.
Peter
Sent from Outlook for iOSFrom: sword-devel <sword-devel-boun...@crosswire.org> on behalf of David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2025 11:30 am
To: sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel@crosswire.org>
Cc: David Haslam <df.has...@btinternet.com>
Subject: [sword-devel] Proposal for a new SWORD filter to display word dividersI wish to propose that we design in a new SWORD filter.
The conf key would be:
- GlobalOptionFilter=ShowWordDividers
In the writing systems for the various languages of SE Asia (Thai, Khmer, Lao, Myanmar) there is [generally] no space between words.
In this respect, they are like many European languages before the start of silent reading. The descriptive term is Scriptura Continua.
Some Bible translations for this region are already making use of one of the ZERO WIDTH characters to invisibly mark the divisions between lexical words.Options include:
- U+200B ZERO WIDTH SPACE
- U+200C ZERO WIDTH NON-JOINER
- U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO BREAK SPACE
They exclude:
- U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER
A further possibility, even without requiring a full study Bible with Strong's, etc, is to simply wrap each lexical word within the OSIS w element.One without any OSIS attributes would suffice for this purpose. Likewise, for the seg element.
My proposal is that we design a feature to show/hide word dividers by displaying them using a suitable visible but non-intrusive character.My suggestion is to use this Unicode character by default:
- U+00B7 MIDDLE DOT
We could even allow the actual visible character to be specified in a second conf key, thus:
- VisibleWordDivider=U+00B7
Benefits would include:
- Helps with language learning to know where lexical words start and end
- Helps with front-end search for whole words, exact phrase or all words
- Helps with checking the accuracy of Bible translations by clearly displaying lexical word boundaries at the touch of a single key in the front-end
- Paves the way for Study Bible with the addition of Strong's mark-up, etc.
Here's a sample of Khmer verse text with the MIDDLE DOT as the visible word divider:Obad.1.1
cf. Here's what it looks like with the ZWSP as the invisible word divider:Obad.1.1
If SWORD developers agree that my proposal merits consideration, please would you start on the software development.
Best regards,
David
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