really weird. do I need to open a Sword bug? (it might be better if you
could, as you could explain it better than I could, but you're a busy
man...)
On Mon, Apr 14, 2025 at 3:00 PM Karl Kleinpaste <k...@kleinpaste.org> wrote:
> On 3/29/25 13:30, Fred wrote:
>
> So I fired up Xiphos, installed the 3 greek modules from Crosswire and did
> some searches.
> Oddly enough, doing a search for that word, using "exact phrase" says it
> can be found in Matt 8:17, Mark 13:35, II Cor 6:18, II Tim 1:5, Titus 3:9
> and 1 Peter 4:19.
>
> doing the same search in the tischmorph module turns up only the ones in
> Rev and II Cor.
>
> So, looked up the matthew reference and find that word isn't there!
> ...
> Two oddities here, anybody got any clues?
>
>
> Sorry for being tardy about this, another instance of "I marked this for
> later, then didn't notice when 'later' came and went..."
>
> The short, useless answer is "I don't have any good explanation."
>
> TischMorph:
> When I search lemma:G3841, I get 10 verses:
> 2Cor 6:18; Rev 1:8; 4:8; 11:17; 15:3; 16:7; 16:14; 19:6; 19:15; 21:22
> Of that, Rev 16:14, 19:15 are included because they are ref'd by the same
> Strong's but in the form παντοκρατορος.
>
> When I search παντοκρατωρ, I get:
> lucene: nothing?
> phrase, regex: The usual 8 verses (above, excluding the 2 alternates).
> Certainly, I expect lucene search should cough up the same 8.
>
> When I adjust the search term to the more general παντοκρ*, then lucene
> search gives me what I expect. ???
>
> I have no idea how you're getting Matt/Mark/2Tim/Tit/1Pet references. I
> don't see that.
>
> However, when I use diatheke:
> diatheke -b TischMorph -s lucene -k παντοκρατωρ | sed -e 's/8R/8 ; R/' -e
> 's/II/; II/' | semis | sort
> ("sed" is to fix some rough output from diatheke)
> then I get the usual 8 verses.
>
> In 2TGreek:
> lucene: nothing?
> regex: The usual 8.
> phrase: The usual 8 plus Mat 8:17; Mark 13:35; 2Tim 1:5, Tit 3:9?!? But no
> 1Pet reference.
> This is freakish.
>
> Again, adjust search to use παντοκρ*, I now get a proper set including the
> extras from παντοκρατορος (10 verses).
> How is this distinguished?
>
> I cannot begin to explain any of this. Surely, lucene search should be
> returning the proper set on a no-wildcard single word. This suggests to me
> that there is something funny about how the lucene index is being handled.
> "Exact phrase" adding verses that are manifestly not to be included is a
> different sort of problem.
>
> The bottom line for Xiphos is that it turns off Greek Accents and uses
> StripText on search terms (for consistency of "no accents that would create
> false differences"), then executes the search. What Xiphos displays is what
> the engine sends back. Xiphos has no more control than that.
>
> I'm thoroughly mystified by all of this, especially since I can see that I
> (being in Xiphos' code) have nothing additional I can do about how the
> search behaves. The code just prepares the search terms and hands it off
> for execution.
>
> I rebuilt lucene indices to ensure there was nothing funny from a possibly
> old index generation.
>
> How can παντοκρατωρ and παντοκρ* produce different lucene results?
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