All of this was very helpful and I think it does expose the raw point here. I haven’t been afforded the opportunity to present the case for DSS yet - you won’t allow me to participate in it. But even if that’s the case that’s not what I react to.
When I ask other questions, legitimate questions, about module construction, error questions for example, I get hostilility. This community should not have its lepers! Please let’s agree to let that stop. I understand Michael’s point, that you are trying to protect this community. You should be lauded for it; but there’s a right way and a wrong way. Telling members to ‘move on’ is not in the same spirit as laying out detailed posts about community practice and expectation. With respect to DSS publication, Ill start a separate thread to keep threads consistent. Please, all be civil and patient on that thread. On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 1:54 PM [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > All of these in my last post are more or less real life examples. Stuff we > have seen and I have dealt with. The examples are just that. In the end > there are sometimes judgment calls, particularly where things are tricky. > Non signature to Berne and late introduction of copyrights is really tricky > as there are all kinds of implications. None of us are lawyers and as > Michael points out, a visit by the copyright police could cause real grief. > So we are very cautious, maybe sometimes too cautious. > > The DSS modules are English texts, scholarly translations from the qumran > scrolls. Given the time scales, there is no doubt that the English > translations are in copyright. Only a fool will debate this. So , while we > would be delighted to publish them, we can only do so if we get either > specific permission by the copyright holders to publish them or are pointed > at convincing verbiage by the publisher that anyone who wants can freely > redistribute, as long as they abide by conditions x, y or x. There is NO > other way we would ever contemplate to publish these. Nor is there any need > to discuss this further. Nor do we want links or offers to access to > modules created despite our refusal to contemplate these modules further on > our mailing list > > There is ample discussion of these modules in our archive, which I might > bump up if I come round to it. The bottom line is that we neither received > permissions from the publisher nor were pointed at relevant free use > verbiage, but instead were entertained by increasing curious interpretation > of the law as we do (not) know it. Any objection to this was countered with > more of what you see already unfolding on the other thread and here > presumably now soon too. > > There are points at which I lose my will to live. The DSS "debates" have > often brought me close to that. If in the course of this I have offended, > upset or worried anyone other than the originator of these debate, then I > am very sorry. In that particular direction I have though a very clear > conscience. Unwillingness to abide by community rules will ultimately lead > to exclusion from the community. New inclusion is always possible, but it > requires at least some clear indication of willingness to abide now by the > rules..... > > > > Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird > autocorrects. > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Copyright, modules, mailing list > From: [email protected] > To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum > CC: > > > Good question, much is ad hoc but in the end this is how things usually > run: > > 1) "I am working on this Bible text in my language. The text us ancient, > around 200 years old, but still very relevant for my country's church. I > have put my source text into Github and would be grateful about some coding > advice" thanks, no questions, all are happy. > > 2) " I am the technical guy of the Bible society of X and we want to make > our new translation wider available. Can some help me to fix A, B and C , I > can make the full module available to testers. Our director will write a > letter to your module team regarding distribution rights as module" thanks > no problem. Discuss your preliminaries and technical examples with original > text if necessary here on the list. > > 3) "I have obtained the text of the NIV by scraping this website.... Can > you help to fix my module?" Sorry, stop right here, we do not want any > discussion about this and certainly do not want it here. > > 4) I have created a module of this translation into my language , the > translation is from 1960, still in copyright, but our bible society is > publishhing the text with a license allowing free redistribution as long As > the text remains unchanged. " " thanks, sounds really interesting, can you > point us at where it says that you can freely redistribute?" > > 5)" I believe that the Bible should never be copyrighted and have created > a collection of modules of modern translations to make use of my belief." > No debate necessary, move on please. But do not stay here. > > 6)" I am making use of this scholarly edition, and while it is only 30 > years old, I believe I am justified to make a module because scientist > crave nothing more than exposure and use of the text as a module should be > allowed under academic freedom and further interesting theories of > copyright exemptions in which only I believe, but I am due I am right. ", " > well, we do not agree and we do not recognise your exemptions on the k away > as we know it, so please do not advertise or discuss your new modules here. > " > > 7) "I am making use of this scholarly edition and the editors and > copyright holders are really keen to see it in module form, where can they > send a letter to confirm this?" "Right here, right here, many thanks, > brilliant news" > > 8) My country is an interesting one, as it has never subscribed to the > Berne convention, but it introduced copyright in 1987. Everything before is > under public domain. Can I publish this Bible in my language, it was > published in 1985.?" Ah, this is an interesting one... > > > This is the process, if you want to call it so. Played itself out hundreds > of times on sword-devel. Works usually well. Very few people really do not > get it. > > > Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird > autocorrects. > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [sword-devel] Copyright, modules, mailing list > From: "Andrew T." > To: SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum > CC: > > > This is very helpful Peter. Thank you. > > However, I’d like to ask about enforcement. > Does a module actually need to be submitted to the project to be judged? > Or is it sufficient to judge modules the project has never seen by simply > judging the reputation of the person working on them? > > What is the process for initiating this scrutiny? > I ask only because you seem able to judge modules you’ve never seen, while > casting doubt upon them. > > > On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 6:28 AM [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Just as a reminder. >> >> CrossWise does respect copyrights and takes in general a very cautious >> view in these matters. >> >> If there is a hint of a doubt regarding the public domain status we do >> not publish a text unless we have permissions. Whether explicit or via free >> licensing (Creative Commons and the like). If we believe we require >> explicit permissions then we welcome the assistance of community members to >> obtain these, but in the end it will always be the module team or the >> director who needs to receive the permissions from the copyright owner. >> >> In this way we have on occasion forgone texts we really would like to >> publish and other projects felt free to publish, but we still believe that >> this approach has born fruit. >> >> There are occasionally situations where people decided that the only >> likely approach to convince a copyright owner to grant permissions is to >> create a module as showcase. This is a potentially risky undertaking, but >> clearly who does so believes that the risk is acceptable for them >> personally. As long as such modules are not discussed (explicitely or >> implicitly)'or offered on the list for testing purposes or otherwise and as >> long as these people do not describe themselves as community members of >> CrossWire to the publishers, there clearly is little risk that this >> approach will affect the project negatively either legally or >> reputationwise. >> >> Beyond the above, some jurisdictions will permit private use, reuse and >> transformation of texts otherwise restricted. This is great for >> individuals, but it does not enable us as an entity to assist with this. >> Please do not discuss your attempts in this way here. >> >> Further, we do not promote or permit onwards distribution of modules >> unless they are in the public domain or the copyright owners have >> explicitly permitted such onward distribution.To set up a "mirror" other >> that non publicly accessible strictly private is not acceptable. >> >> Finally there are of course valid debates to be had in general regarding >> copyright for Biblical texts and many of us will have private views quite >> different from what we uphold as a project. That is fine, as long as we can >> maintain the commitment to the cautious corporate approach described above >> as a community. Sword-devel is not the place to have lengthy debates on >> these matters and persistently pushing the boundaries in this or any of the >> above matters is not an acceptable thing to do. >> >> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird >> autocorrects. >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my mobile. Please forgive shortness, typos and weird >> autocorrects. >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: [email protected] >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page > > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: [email protected] > http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
_______________________________________________ sword-devel mailing list: [email protected] http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page
