> > Re: > > - Tabs in the cross-reference box at the bottom: We could fit about 5 tabs > in there... Or we could have several rows... > - Good idea about the [-] option. we could have that in the box, leaving > the tabs at the bottom/top of the box. > - in terms of the inline scrolling, how about using the page flow, so long > web pages, but the bits at the top and the bottom would always be visible > (so we're using the browser scroll bar, but always have the header and > bottom visible (like a status bar in a window). Then the side bit can follow > as it scrolls up and down, so it's always there. > > Possibly the next step is to create all those bits as features in JIRA and > come up with a working model, albeit with mock data where we don't have > something yet. > > Then we'll be able to play a bit with it and see how it feels. > Chris > > > > > On 27 April 2010 13:49, David Instone-Brewer > <techni...@tyndale.cam.ac.uk>wrote: > >> Dear Chris >> >> Yep - these responses sound good. >> A few comments: >> Tabs for extra views - I think the "bookmarks" already provide this. >> Unclicking tabs - people are used to unclicking a button or a radio-button >> selection. Could the tab stand out like a button? But a simple [-] or "off" >> would work too >> Inline scrollbars - I don't see what's wrong with these. They have gone >> out of fashion on web pages but merely because Google doesn't like frames. >> - I much prefer an inline scrollbar to a long webpage, cos you can't >> see everything at once. Eg, you might be looking at the bottom of a chapter, >> while trying to read the top of a lexicon definition, or a popout with a >> list of names, or the first verses of a different chapter. >> Hover display - overlaying the search box and title sounds OK. I agree the >> middle area is narrow. >> >> David IB >> >> >> At 13:13 27/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote: >> >> And few extra comments >> >> + To increase space allocated to seeing the passage, it would be good to >> be able to expand downwards >> + Mobile devices would probably default to one pane with a smaller set of >> icons on the side >> + A pin on the sidebar would allow you to collapse the sidebar further >> (using smaller icons as David Haslam was mentioning) >> + Someone mentioned workspaces/virtual desktops. My flatmate mentioned it >> as well. It would be good to find an intuitive way of saving the view, or >> creating a new view. So that users who want to see more than two panes can >> start flicking between their views... Maybe tabs on the top of each pane? or >> at the very top, a banner with a tab ( a bit like Google Chrome has) >> >> Chris >> >> >> On 27 April 2010 13:06, Chris Burrell <ch...@burrell.me.uk> wrote: >> My comments below, prefixed with >>> (and in bold if that comes through) >> >> On 26 April 2010 13:00, David Instone-Brewer <techni...@tyndale.cam.ac.uk> >> wrote: >> Chris, these are great! >> >> (David, I've copied you in for your creative 'eye' - links to screenshots >> are >> here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQsGWsoI/AAAAAAAAADs/t2ijJOFqFPc/s1600/tyndale+step-750569.PNG>, >> here<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQEI12uI/AAAAAAAAADk/Qxp-v2p_QEM/s1600/tyndale+step+with+popup-747928.PNG>, >> here<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaPNzSBI/AAAAAAAAAD8/npX67PYsUqc/s1600/tyndale_step_description-788925.PNG>, >> here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaI4ERiI/AAAAAAAAAD0/XL_u75zTlkE/s1600/tyndale_step_with_popup_description-788049.PNG>, >> here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SpdQ5XfBI/AAAAAAAAAEM/3Rw7bs3AQ6k/s1600/tyndale+step+no+bookmarks-713151.PNG>, >> & >> here<http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9Spc_NlF3I/AAAAAAAAAEE/EF3stgSdQ18/s1600/step1_green-711941.PNG>). >> >> >> >> * I love the tags along the top of the text panes, which don't take up >> much room and dropdown to list the versions >> >> * I love the footprint logo at the bottom middle. >> >> * The Tools menu at top right is a great idea. >> >> * The big friendly buttons down the left are nice. They look a bit >> mysterious to start with, but are quickly learned. >> >> >> >>> I think we can easily add some "alternative text" to let the user know >> what the button is in a non obstructive way >> >> >> >> * The popout of People etc, overlaying most of the text panes works well. >> >> >> * The people list - starting with a list at Aaron, Abaddon etc, with >> "more" looks good as a quick way to pick the person you want >> >> * The idea of starting typing and filtering the results is very intuitive. >> >> >> * I like the idea of intelligence for searching, with the option of >> telling it what to search for. So if someone looks up Aaron, they can decide >> if they want the People database or a concordance search. >> >> * the Bookmarks in the middle look perfect - intuitive, and don't take up >> much room. >> >> * Using the space between the panes for "Timeline", "People" etc is a >> great idea. The "Bookmarks" could be simply one of them. - ie click on one, >> and it turns into a list of the People, Maps, Bookmarks etc which are >> available. >> >> * I like the idea of Green as a colour scheme - it fits nicely with the >> logo and looks friendly. >> >> * I agree we need a config page but it can be separate >> >> * I agree we can use Browser back buttons >> >> * I too have misgivings about menus at the top. Personally I like them, >> esp for providing keyboard shortcuts, but they make applications look dated. >> If we have it, perhaps it could be an option. >> >> Some minor suggestions (most of them are further ideas which you may >> already have in mind) >> >> * The bridge would look more intuitive if it touched both sides and looked >> like one of those bridges which lift up to let boats under (ie the >> connection between the two sides is broken) >> >> >>> Yes, I couldn't find a proper bridge like that. I think that a >> chain might be better (link / unlink). One of the problems is that the >> picture needs to be so big since the two panes are relatively speaking quite >> far from each other... >> >> * We need some indication of what version we are looking at. - ie when >> you click on the dropdown for "English" versions and pick ESV, then pick KJV >> on the other pane, we need to see somewhere that that these are what we have >> selected. >> >> >>> Yep, so perhaps something like Matthew 8:2-13 [ESV] in the title? >> >> * I'd prefer tabs on the bottom boxes instead of an options button. This >> would indicates that all those tabs remain 'live' and available, and >> unclicking the one which is clicked could minimise the box. >> >> >>> I'm not sure unclicking a tab is very intuitive? or are you thinking >> of having a tab called "No info" >> >> >> >> * perhaps we could indicate "manual" or "personal" bookmarks (ie ones >> which the user especially wants to remember) by highlighting them or making >> them a different colour. Or perhaps "personal bookmarks" could be a separate >> list. >> >> >>> Yes, agreed. So part of the idea on one of the buttons (in a later >> screenshot) was to have a bookmarks option so that people could get to them >> very quickly when they come back. >> >> >> * It would be nice to have to option of opening a box at the bottom of >> both text panes, even if they are linked, so someone could see (say) both >> crossRefs and personal notes at the same time. >> >> >>> Yup. Good idea. >> >> * I think we could reduce the size of the search options by simply having >> a dropdown from the binoculars. Most of the time, there won't be any need to >> specify the kind of search, because a Reference, or Strongs# is unambiguous, >> and we can set the default to a concordance search for most other things. If >> they have the sidebar open at People or Places we can change the default to >> that. So most of the time people won't have to choose the search database. >> >>> Yes, although I don't understand the comment about when the side bar >> is open. The idea is to make the side bar a temporary helper to the >> application, which "disables" most of the application behind while open. >> >> >> * Do we need a search box inside the side popouts? The main searchbox >> could be used. Perhaps the sidebar and popout could start higher up, so that >> the main searchbox could be incorporated into the popout. >> >> >>> I think we do. I think it would confuse people if we only have 1: >> one of the search boxes is to carry out a one-off search, the other one in >> the popout is to filter search results according to what module is selected >> on the toolbar. >> >> >> * Could we use the bookmark space for our hover-over information? I'd >> really like to avoid the usual problem of overlaying the very text you are >> trying to read. >> >> >>> Good idea (although it's kind of narrow...). I was going to suggest >> using the notes field at the bottom, but that wouldn't work because of my >> comments down below. Another option is to use a overlay on the top header >> part (covering the search boxes) >> >> >> * One of the trickiest things is typing a reference. Could we give the >> user some help? Perhaps, when they start typing in the search box, we could >> have an initial dropdown of Bible books (ie type "G" and get "Genesis 1... >> / Galatians 1..." at the top, then a horizontal line and other options such >> as "Gad / Gadara / Gideon... etc). This will esp help those who don't know >> the Bible books well, or who type "Jud" for Judges and end up in Jude. >> >> >>> All very feasible >> >> * Could we add some kind of chapter selection? Perhaps, when "Genesis >> 1..." is selected the dropdown could change to "Genesis 1 / Genesis 2 / >> Genesis 3 / Genesis 3 / ..." >> >> >>> I think you mean "Genesis " would come up with Genesis 1, Genesis >> 2, etc. Genesis 1 would come up with Genesis 11, Genesis 12, etc. I think >> also the Bible function on the left (maybe we only need one) could server >> that purpose, as a drill down. So your side popup would appear, you'd click >> Genesis, then get a list of all the chapters, then click a chapter... >> >> * AND / OR we could put a Bible icon by the side of the Search box with a >> drill-down Bible book & chapter selection. >> >> * When we implement Browser functions (like extending the page downward, >> or using child windows, we have to remember that not all Browsers are equal, >> esp on a phone or an iPad. We can't rely on extra space and extra windows >> being available. >> >> Agreed, a comment from my flat mate however was that if we're squeezing >> the Bible into these two panes, and they are not linked (ie. different >> versions/passage/content) we may need to expand them downwards like a proper >> webpage for fear of not displaying enough of the passage. I'd rather avoid >> inline scroll bars... >> >> >> * I like the big popout area from side bar, but perhaps it should cover >> only the left-hand text pane (and it could cover more of it) - so that the >> user can arrange to have the passage they are looking up to still be visible >> on the right-hand pane. Eg someone may be looking up "Jehoshaphat" and >> they'd want to see the name while searching for it. >> - this would also help with smaller devices, on which we can display >> either one text pane or the other, but not a wide area spanning both. >> >> >>> Good idea >> >> * That makes me think it would be nice to be able to swap the right & >> left text panes. Can the "bridge" icon serve double purpose somehow? >> >> >>> Maybe dragging and dropping the pane onto the other side? >> >> * What about putting the left-hand buttons on the right-hand side? I'm >> thinking about how this will be approached. Most users start at the left and >> the big buttons make them think that this is what they want to choose first, >> whereas we want the Bible text to be the center and the other things to be >> spokes or offshoots. So if the big buttons are on the right, their eyes will >> be drawn first to the main searchbox, which is where we want them to start. >> And if there is a Bible icon to the left of the search, this should lead >> them to drill down to a Bible chapter. Also, if the popout is on the right, >> it is less likely to cover the very text they have selected. >> >> >>> Possibly. I'll try that and post a screenshot. >> >> * If the popout is covering the complete right-hand text pane, we should >> make sure that IF the two panes are linked, we temporarily unlink them so >> that a user can scroll up and down through the complete text in just the >> left-hand pane which they can still see, while the popout obscures the >> right-hand side. >> >> * The Bible icon in the big buttons should perhaps lead to commentaries >> rather than Bible books - ie keep the theme that these buttons are all >> adjuncts to the text. >> >> >>> Yup, I was thinking that as well... Maybe a little Bible icon next >> to the search, which would just populate the auto-suggest search box at the >> top. >> >> >> >> This is really taking shape! >> >> David IB >> >> >> At 21:57 25/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote: >> >> Some mock ups from me are now on the Tyndale Programming blogs: >> http://tyndalestep-prog.blogspot.com/<http://tyndalestep-prog.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2010-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50> >> >> Comments are welcome, whether good or bad!!! I think whatever happens, the >> icons would need to be harmonized (colour an style) and thought through a >> bit. And obviously the colour scheme would need to be chosen carefully (do >> we also want to make colour blind people have easy access, etc.?) >> >> >> The first two screenshots go together: >> >> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQsGWsoI/AAAAAAAAADs/t2ijJOFqFPc/s1600/tyndale+step-750569.PNG >> >> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnQEI12uI/AAAAAAAAADk/Qxp-v2p_QEM/s1600/tyndale+step+with+popup-747928.PNG >> >> where the second one is when the user has clicked a button on the left >> hand side. >> >> And then there's the explanations of some of the layouts if need be: >> >> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaPNzSBI/AAAAAAAAAD8/npX67PYsUqc/s1600/tyndale_step_description-788925.PNG >> >> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SnaI4ERiI/AAAAAAAAAD0/XL_u75zTlkE/s1600/tyndale_step_with_popup_description-788049.PNG >> >> Finally, there's a couple of extra screenshots: >> >> The first showing an alternative of the bit in the middle of the book: >> >> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9SpdQ5XfBI/AAAAAAAAAEM/3Rw7bs3AQ6k/s1600/tyndale+step+no+bookmarks-713151.PNGwhere >> it would list the content we have about a particular passage >> >> and then one that looks particularly green (the green from one of the >> logos that was on the blogs a few weeks ago: >> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4q-hr4DqduU/S9Spc_NlF3I/AAAAAAAAAEE/EF3stgSdQ18/s1600/step1_green-711941.PNG) >> >> A few other remarks: >> 1st: we're going to run this thing in a browser (whether online or >> offline), so we can make use of the browser buttons (back and forth), most >> naturally to capture content change, similar to the bookmarks, going back >> and forth through the passages we've visited. (that is stateless, i.e. if we >> came back tomorrow that history would be forgotten about). >> >> 2ndly, it's a browser, so we can expand the page downwards (by inserting >> content at the top), or at the bottom. We can also use internal links to go >> between one screen and another. >> >> 3rdly: we could include some sort of menus at the top to make it feel more >> desktop-like. Not sure what I think about that. >> >> 4th: we do need a place of general configuration and user preferences >> (things like proxy settings, installing more sword modules/bibles, etc.). >> Generally most of that can be done on a separate page, but we need a way of >> accessing it, even if it's just one button at the top right, or something >> like that. >> >> I think that's it from me for now... >> >> Please do let me know what you all think!? >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> At 22:38 22/04/2010, Chris Burrell wrote: >> >> Just thought I'd share a few sites that have cropped up recently from >> various people in the listings and outside. If we could pull ideas off those >> interfaces, I think we could end up with something really good. >> 1- http://my.offlinebible.com/index.php 2- >> http://code.google.com/p/xulsword/ 3- http://www.bibleglo.com/ >> Chris >> >> I like lots of things in XulSword. What I liked about OffLineBible: * >> Bookmarks - click on it, and it displays the ref it is marking. * >> different formats (no Strongs; inline Strongs, interlinear Strongs, columns * >> the line along the top where you can pick a chapter (a bit fiddly to use, >> but an interesting idea) BibleGlo * all the bling. OK, it isn't >> necessary, but it looks cool - well, impressive. * the add campaign (now >> that advertising can be free, who says it doesn't pay?) >> OK, Here are some positive ideas: >> I like the idea of two panes of text, as in the prototype, and in >> XulSword, with a wide tab area for navigation on the left as in XulSword, >> * the XulSword tabs are in two columns with a narrow left-hand column of >> OT/NT, and a wider right-hand column which lists of books for OT or >> NT but I think we can develop that further: Instead of having just >> OT and NT in the narrow left-most tab, we can have other things, >> which bring up more things in the wider right-hand tab: - OldT - >> listing OT books - NewT - listing NT books - Geog - listing >> placenames - Hist - listing periods - Lit - listing significant >> extra-biblical books - Lang - listing languages - Who - listing >> people - Find - a search box listing results >> With some of these, we will have to display a cut-down list, perhaps with [+] >> at the side to open up the item into more detail, eg for people: [+] >> Aaron [+] Baalam [+] Caanan - giving just 26 entries displayed. For >> Languages I'd suggest an interface like 2LetterLookup.com >> The equal sized panes of text could be like in XulSword, ie: >> * each pane can show a different chapter of the Bible or the same chap >> in a different version, or they can be linked to show more of the >> chapter, flowing from one to the other. * a raisable bridge icon (like >> London Tower Bridge?) can join or separate them >> * both panes have an identical set of tabs across the top * these tabs >> need to be in two layers, classifying them into - English (ie PD >> versions) - European, (ie other language groups) - African - >> Eastern (etc as needed) - Online (ie IFrames to NIV and other >> commercial version websites) - Ancient (ie Greek, Hebrew, ancient >> versions) * at the bottom of each pane, there's a box which minimises >> when not in use * below this box is another set of tabs determining what >> these boxes show (and when the box is minimised, they remain as a set >> of buttons) * These tabs include: - footnotes (ie all the footnotes of >> verses in that chapter) - cross-refs (ie all the crossrefs of verses >> in that chapter) - personal notes (for that chap) - names (ie all >> the people and places named, with links to dictionaries) - timeline >> (ie a minimised view of the time represented by that chapter) - vocab >> (ie all Greek, Hebrew and English words which occur in the chapter) >> * between the two text panes put a column of bookmarks, with an arrow >> in both directions, so you can open in either pane * at the top are >> "manual" bookmarks and at the bottom are "automatic" bookmarks - add a >> manual bookmark by clicking on an arrow at the top middle of each text - >> an automatic bookmark is added everyone a pane moves away from a chapter >> by any means other than scrolling * the two sets of bookmarks accumulate >> vertically in order of setting them and when they run out of room, >> there is a scroll function to see older ones * a "back" button at the top >> of each text pane keeps a history of what was displayed on that pane >> * when you hover over a tagged word, definitions etc appear as a hover * >> this hover does NOT appear next to the cursor, but always in the Tab area on >> the left, because this area is not being used once a person has gone >> where they want to go, whereas an overlay by the cursor obscures the >> exact text being studied * hover works within the text panes, and also >> in the boxes - hovering over a cross-ref shows the verse, - >> hovering over a Greek word in the text pane or a box shows a lexicon entry >> - hovering over a place name in text or pane or a box shows dictionary entry >> etc * when you click on a ref (rather than hovering over it), the >> left-hand text pane goes to that chapter and highlights the verse >> clicked on * when you click on a word or place or date (rather than >> hovering over it), the right-hand text pane shows a full lexicon or map >> or timeline. >> * A Search box is permanently visible at top left, above the Tabs and >> results appear in the wider right-hand Tabs area - this searches for >> English, Greek, Hebrew, numbers (for Strongs) and Refs working out >> for itself what it is searching for. >> >> We have LOTS of data to display, but we want to try and accommodate small >> screens - big problem! Let's assume that phone screens will get bigger. My >> Toshiba G910 has 800x600 pixels in eye-watering 2.5"x1.7" size, which is >> great for those under 40, but as soon as your lenses harden, you need +3 >> glasses to see the details. I think phones will go in the way of >> high-density screens, though laptops may not follow. But I don't think we >> should assume that we will have this much space. Although we can display >> a lot, people can't see so much detail. >> On small screens, we can treat the three areas (tabs on the left, and two >> text panes) as separate screens which you drag into view as on an iPhone. >> With small screens, the hover area will have to be near the cursor, as in >> most systems. >> Can someone with artistic skills make a visual of all this? >> David IB >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> >
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