On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Devin Teske <dte...@freebsd.org> wrote:
> > On Jun 11, 2018, at 7:07 AM, Warner Losh <i...@bsdimp.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Devin Teske <dte...@freebsd.org> wrote: > >> >> >> > On Jun 10, 2018, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Evans <kev...@freebsd.org> wrote: >> > >> > Author: kevans >> > Date: Mon Jun 11 01:32:18 2018 >> > New Revision: 334939 >> > URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/334939 >> > >> > Log: >> > lualoader: Allow brand-*.lua for adding new brands >> > >> > dteske@, I believe, had originally pointed out that lualoader failed >> to >> > allow logo-*.lua for new logos to be added. When correcting this >> mistake, I >> > failed to do the same for brands. >> > >> >> You’re doing an amazing job, Kyle. >> >> I continually see nothing but genuine effort toward feature parity which >> makes me think one day I can pass the reigns. >> >> Yeah, I will always love Forth. It will always hold a special place in my >> heart as that whacky language that simultaneously exudes great power while >> also having the image ability to induce vomiting 🤮 by the uninitiated. >> >> However, all that being said, I’d actually like to keep the Ficl boot >> stuff as an option through to 14.0 and here is why ... >> >> Last year we were looking to update from ficl3 to ficl4. That may not >> sound too exciting to most folks, but most folks don’t know the power that >> ficl4 brings — like the capability to use full networking in the loader! >> Can lua do that? How cool would it be to be able to communicate with the >> network from the loader before the kernel is even loaded into memory? I had >> a few hair-brained schemes left for Forth which might be exciting, lol >> > > The current boot loader can already communicate via NFS or TFTP today. > Adding http would be easy, https would be harder due to crypto being huge > and space being small (though bear ssl might be small enough). > > The last articulated plan in arch@ was that LUA will be default in 12, > and we plan to remove FORTH in 13. Last time I said it there in February, > there was only email agreeing that I could find. This matches the in-person > consensus poll I took at BSDcan as well. I think it would take a very > extraordinary set circumstance and severe problems with LUA to change those > plans. > > > At BSD Can there was the boot working group where we discussed that an FCP > would be required to decide this. > In the working group you weren't listening and being rather combative and demanding that I do stuff, so I stopped talking. It should not be taken as a sign of my consent, but more a sign of not wanting to get into a yelling match in public on a topic I thought had been settled months ago. I raised my desires that I would like to be able to flip a knob in 13 and > reboot between Ficl and Lua, back and forth. > > Give people a choice until we have done a "shake-out" through an entire > major version. > > An honest-to-goodness procession would be, in my mind: > > 13: Has both; both are installed. End-user can boot back and forth between > the two > > Problems that arise in one or the other are non-critical because there is > always an "out" by running the other. > > 14: Has both but both are not installed. The installer media doesn't even > have it. You can't install the Forth booth stuff unless you twist a knob in > buildworld, optionally going down the path of generating release media > which has the Forth boot stuff. > > 15. It's removed from tree. You can't build Forth boot. Lua only. No > looking back, no way to build it with Forth, to get Ficl you need to go to > ports. A Ficl with FreeBSD boot words no longer exists and is no longer > maintained. All of bhyve userboot also therefore uses Lua. > That's way too long. 12 will have Lua by default, but you can build FORTH if you want has been the plan since February when I socialized this on arch@. I originally pitched coexistence, but there was little appetite for that. So I think a FCP discussed in arch@ is the right path forward. Warner _______________________________________________ svn-src-all@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/svn-src-all To unsubscribe, send any mail to "svn-src-all-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
