Dear Lorenzo, On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 6:58 PM Picinali, Lorenzo <l.picin...@imperial.ac.uk> wrote:
> Hello Jungfeng, > > this is a good starting reference for human localisation in rooms: > > > https://asa.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/1.390163?casa_token=CFvwSHcyaLAAAAAA:bWPPmgMCrq0av1HBq2u_qYarqXatOFggyofiiYVWzguTOLbI3jDLCG65xni64_uMXVKq7setdQ > > There are also two further papers by Hartmann on the same topic, which are > linked at the beginning of the one linked above. In general, early > reflections can reinforce the sense of localisation of the sound source, > especially if coming from the same direction (see the conclusions of the > paper above). Of course familiarity with the room (and/or long-term > training) will be of help as well. > Yeah! As I know that the reverberation in room contributes a lot to distance perception or externalization perception for headphone reproduction. However, I am not sure that reverberation also helps to elevation perception. therefore, I am wondering whether there is any reference to point out this idea. > > Regarding the training, we actually do have a version of the app for > iPhones and cardboard HMDs...if that's what you have, send me your github > username/email address and I'll share the repo with you. > > > I have no github now. I will create one and let you know as soon as possible. Thanks again. Best regards, Junfeng > > > -- > Dr Lorenzo Picinali > Reader in Audio Experience Design<https://www.axdesign.co.uk/> > Dyson School of Design Engineering > Imperial College London > Dyson Building > Imperial College Road > South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London > E: l.picin...@imperial.ac.uk > > http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali > https://www.axdesign.co.uk/ > ________________________________ > From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Junfeng Li < > junfeng.li.1...@gmail.com> > Sent: 12 August 2022 11:16 > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] On 3D audio rendering for signals with the low > sampling frequency > > Dear Lorenzo, > > Thanks a lot for your instructive information. > > > > > > addressing the same matter in the Auditory mailing list, David McAlpine > > suggested to look at perceptual training: > > > > https://www.nature.com/articles/nn0998_417 > > > > While it is true that people with significant hearing loss above 8kHz can > > still perceive elevation, it is likely that this hearing loss (e.g. > > age-related sensorineural) appeared gradually, and the person had time to > > adapt and re-map their spatial hearing cues. As mentioned by others > > already, these are not just the peaks and notches typical of an HRTF, but > > also the reflections coming from the surrounding space. > > > > It is really interesting to know that elevation perception is also affected > by the reflections. Is there any literature to report this conclusion? > What are the differences of reflections for sound images with different > elevated angles? > > > > > > The real issue with hearing training, specifically HRTF accommodation > > (i.e. learning how to localise sound sources with an HRTF which is not > your > > own, which could be extended to learning how to localise sound sources > > using an altered HRTF, e.g. low-passed at 8kHz), is that it takes some > > time, it's not really immediate, so if the aim is to just release some > > spatialised audio online or through other channels for the general > public, > > it might be difficult to implement that. > > But it might be interesting to try! Together with Brian FG Katz in Paris > > we've done some work looking at short- and long-term HRTF accommodation: > > > > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37873-0 > > > > and also at VR-based localisation training > > > > https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-54811-w > > > > We'll be happy to share with you our Unity (currently used with the > Oculus > > Quest 2) spatial hearing training application, so that you can try to > > low-pass the output at 8kHz, and see whether it could work. > > > > > > > We have google Cardboard with a mobile phone as the display device. Is it > suitable to use your Unity for spatial hearing training? If such, could you > please let us have a try? > > Thanks a lot again. > > Best regards, > Junfeng > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dr Lorenzo Picinali > > Reader in Audio Experience Design<https://www.axdesign.co.uk/> > > Dyson School of Design Engineering > > Imperial College London > > Dyson Building > > Imperial College Road > > South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London > > E: l.picin...@imperial.ac.uk > > > > http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali > > https://www.axdesign.co.uk/ > > ________________________________ > > From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Fons > > Adriaensen <f...@linuxaudio.org> > > Sent: 12 August 2022 08:48 > > To: sursound@music.vt.edu <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] On 3D audio rendering for signals with the low > > sampling frequency > > > > > > ******************* > > This email originates from outside Imperial. Do not click on links and > > attachments unless you recognise the sender. > > If you trust the sender, add them to your safe senders list > > https://spam.ic.ac.uk/SpamConsole/Senders.aspx to disable email stamping > > for this address. > > ******************* > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 06:40:28PM +0800, Junfeng Li wrote: > > > > > Do the early reflections contribute to elevation perception ? > > > > Well, something which is probably not related to HRTF does. > > Older people often have hearing limited to 8 kHz or even less, > > but may still be able to perceive elevation in some way. > > > > Early reflections (in a acoustically familiar environment) may > > play a role. Also of course expectations - remember that human > > perception is not objective, it is mostly based on a mental > > reconstruction of a scene. We expect certain sounds to come > > from above. Even cultural elements may play a role in how > > certain sounds are perceived. > > > > This is very well known in visual perception - for example people > > who have never lived in a world in which straight lines and right > > angles are everywhere are not sensitive to some visual illusions > > based on perspective. > > > > But what really puzzles me [1] is why a system that for whatever > > reason is limited to an 8 kHz bandwidth is expected to provide > > full 3D audio. It's just not realistic. You can't do a rock > > concert with a one Watt amplifier. You can't transport a grand > > piano on a bicycle. > > > > [1] Or not. I've known my share of managers who believe that > > business logic or ideology can bend the laws of physics or > > mathematics... > > > > Ciao, > > > > -- > > FA > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220812/f72781be/attachment.htm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220812/8165e55d/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20220812/39531149/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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