I agree with Gus, some kind of amplitude panning would work best. you might need to adjust the panning curves depending on the directivity of the speakers, their height and the acoustics of the room.
I made a sculpture once with two crossed (almost) bidirectional loudspeakers hanging high above the visitor’s heads, they then heard mostly the reflections from the walls (not a very big space) and panning effects worked really well. To encode the audio I used as far as I remember, ambisonic material but then decoded to Blumlein virtual mics. There is also a version of Meyer Sound’s MIAP for Max/MSP https://cycling74.com/tools/miap-manifold-interface-amplitude-panning/ which seems to work very well with non-standard / assymetrical set-ups best wishes, Justin > On 3 Oct 2020, at 18:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: > > Send Sursound mailing list submissions to > sursound@music.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sursound-ow...@music.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Sursound digest..." > > > WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE > > ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY > > You are receiving the digest so when replying, please remember to edit your > Subject line to that of the original message you are replying to, so it is > more specific than "Re: Contents of Sursound-list digest?" the subject should > match the post you are replying to. > > Also, please EDIT the quoted post so that it is not the entire digest, but > just the post you are replying to - this will keep the archive useful and not > polluted with extraneous posts. > > This is the responsibility of digest subscribers. the community and list > subscribers care about the integrity of the threads and archives so this is > important. > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. speakers pointing away from center (S?ren Bendixen) > 2. Re: speakers pointing away from center (Augustine Leudar) > 3. Re: speakers pointing away from center (Augustine Leudar) > 4. Re: speakers pointing away from center (Augustine Leudar) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 23:30:16 +0200 > From: S?ren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > To: Sursound@music.vt.edu > Subject: [Sursound] speakers pointing away from center > Message-ID: <c58cea06-726a-4bac-a11f-a07c17870...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Surround group > For my next exhibition sounddesign I need to make to set ups that is causing > me some concern > one set up is 4 speakers, another is 6 speakers (but are only feeded by 4 > channels of sound) > BUT for both set ups the speakers are point away from center. > The speakers are arranged in a circle, They play out at an angle of approx. > 30 - 40 degrees, seen from a horizontal angle, so they point upwards, a bit. > Hope this is understandable. > > I usually work in reaper + Spat Revolution when I have to make "crazy" > configurations, but this one I can not get drawn in spat R and I do not > immediately know a program that can do such a set up. Next week I have to > experiment with a similar high-pitched line-up - and think that I might just > have to produce directly. > I will try quad format first and see/hear what happens... > > One of the set ups is a Mammuth standing in a river. The sounddesign should > "make the mammuth come alive - so I have one speaker for head, one for each > side and one for the back of the animal. > The diameter for the speaker circle is around one meter for this design, The > diameter for the other design is approx. 2 meters. > > In both cases there must be a coherent sound design (in one set up we add > speak). > If anyone has ideas, experiences I would love to hear about it. > > Med venlig hilsen/Best regards > > S?ren Bendixen > Composer/Sound Designer & Guitarist > > Company: Audiotect > > Radio Audiotect: Playlist > <https://open.spotify.com/playlist/75xmPEKthgagQwwtvllfeJ?si=IqiVEz1lTOK9HKOXOtEcgQ> > > > > Latest Music and Sounddesign > > Stringquartet no. 1 - Release d. 200920 > > > > > > > "HEX - Museum for Witch Hunt" > Ribe, Denmark > From 30 june 2020 - Permanent exhibition > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.htm> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: IMG_5395.png > Type: image/png > Size: 113871 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: 107457750_157381739207936_3979296757990523384_o 2.jpeg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 26694 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.jpeg> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 09:35:39 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] speakers pointing away from center > Message-ID: > <cabx2jupc8ukevruounkcy8tpd-hhyxwmut0neir97-a8mu5...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi I do these kinds of things all the time - far more than ambisonics in > fact basically you want to use Dbap or just any form of amplitude panning. > You could try using ICST in max msp which allows you to draw a map of the > sp[eakers, adjust directivity and then pan the sound around said map, or > you could try Immersive DSPs Immergo system which will allow you to do a > similar thing with certain soundcards, I believe Spat has this capability > too. If Learning this software is too much for your time schedule you can > use normal surround sound panners in a way that they're not strictly meant > to be used. For example a normal quadraphonic panner will still pan a sound > up and down a straight line of 4 speakers instead of a square if you put > the speakers in a straight line instead of a square etc etc > all the best > Gus > > On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 22:30, S?ren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi Surround group >> For my next exhibition sounddesign I need to make to set ups that is >> causing me some concern >> one set up is 4 speakers, another is 6 speakers (but are only feeded by 4 >> channels of sound) >> BUT for both set ups the speakers are point away from center. >> The speakers are arranged in a circle, They play out at an angle of >> approx. 30 - 40 degrees, seen from a horizontal angle, so they point >> upwards, a bit. Hope this is understandable. >> >> I usually work in reaper + Spat Revolution when I have to make "crazy" >> configurations, but this one I can not get drawn in spat R and I do not >> immediately know a program that can do such a set up. Next week I have to >> experiment with a similar high-pitched line-up - and think that I might >> just have to produce directly. >> I will try quad format first and see/hear what happens... >> >> One of the set ups is a Mammuth standing in a river. The sounddesign >> should "make the mammuth come alive - so I have one speaker for head, one >> for each side and one for the back of the animal. >> The diameter for the speaker circle is around one meter for this design, >> The diameter for the other design is approx. 2 meters. >> >> In both cases there must be a coherent sound design (in one set up we add >> speak). >> If anyone has ideas, experiences I would love to hear about it. >> >> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards >> >> S?ren Bendixen >> Composer/Sound Designer & Guitarist >> >> Company: Audiotect >> >> Radio Audiotect: Playlist < >> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/75xmPEKthgagQwwtvllfeJ?si=IqiVEz1lTOK9HKOXOtEcgQ >>> >> >> >> >> Latest Music and Sounddesign >> >> Stringquartet no. 1 - Release d. 200920 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "HEX - Museum for Witch Hunt" >> Ribe, Denmark >> From 30 june 2020 - Permanent exhibition >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.htm >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: IMG_5395.png >> Type: image/png >> Size: 113871 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.png >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: 107457750_157381739207936_3979296757990523384_o 2.jpeg >> Type: image/jpeg >> Size: 26694 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.jpeg >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > > > -- > Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com > Business website: www.magikdoor.net > +44(0)7555784775 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201003/bf316377/attachment.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 10:20:51 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] speakers pointing away from center > Message-ID: > <CABx2juoFZGONRYz=N=posp6tbs8g-ee4m8a_qzdmxl5rhvl...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > just to elaborate with an example - I once had to pan a sound around an > octagon of speakers "facing outward" - using a normal octaphonic panner > worked with this just as well as if the speakers had been facing inward - > because basically the software doesn't know where you've put speakers- it > just uses panning laws to pan sounds from one speaker to the next, you just > need to play around with speaker positions/directivty/panning law etc . I > even used an octaphonic panner in which the software thought the speakers > were in a nice circle - to pan a sound round a part of a maze once. You > just have to watch your panning law/speaker positions so there's not too > many holes in the panning - and make sure you're not trying to pan "across > the circle" as obviously if your speakers are not in a circle it will lead > to unpredictable results. This is a workaround - obviously some form of > special DBAP software is preferred. > > On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 at 09:35, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi I do these kinds of things all the time - far more than ambisonics in >> fact basically you want to use Dbap or just any form of amplitude panning. >> You could try using ICST in max msp which allows you to draw a map of the >> sp[eakers, adjust directivity and then pan the sound around said map, or >> you could try Immersive DSPs Immergo system which will allow you to do a >> similar thing with certain soundcards, I believe Spat has this capability >> too. If Learning this software is too much for your time schedule you can >> use normal surround sound panners in a way that they're not strictly meant >> to be used. For example a normal quadraphonic panner will still pan a sound >> up and down a straight line of 4 speakers instead of a square if you put >> the speakers in a straight line instead of a square etc etc >> all the best >> Gus >> >> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 22:30, S?ren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Surround group >>> For my next exhibition sounddesign I need to make to set ups that is >>> causing me some concern >>> one set up is 4 speakers, another is 6 speakers (but are only feeded by 4 >>> channels of sound) >>> BUT for both set ups the speakers are point away from center. >>> The speakers are arranged in a circle, They play out at an angle of >>> approx. 30 - 40 degrees, seen from a horizontal angle, so they point >>> upwards, a bit. Hope this is understandable. >>> >>> I usually work in reaper + Spat Revolution when I have to make "crazy" >>> configurations, but this one I can not get drawn in spat R and I do not >>> immediately know a program that can do such a set up. Next week I have to >>> experiment with a similar high-pitched line-up - and think that I might >>> just have to produce directly. >>> I will try quad format first and see/hear what happens... >>> >>> One of the set ups is a Mammuth standing in a river. The sounddesign >>> should "make the mammuth come alive - so I have one speaker for head, one >>> for each side and one for the back of the animal. >>> The diameter for the speaker circle is around one meter for this design, >>> The diameter for the other design is approx. 2 meters. >>> >>> In both cases there must be a coherent sound design (in one set up we add >>> speak). >>> If anyone has ideas, experiences I would love to hear about it. >>> >>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards >>> >>> S?ren Bendixen >>> Composer/Sound Designer & Guitarist >>> >>> Company: Audiotect >>> >>> Radio Audiotect: Playlist < >>> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/75xmPEKthgagQwwtvllfeJ?si=IqiVEz1lTOK9HKOXOtEcgQ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Latest Music and Sounddesign >>> >>> Stringquartet no. 1 - Release d. 200920 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> "HEX - Museum for Witch Hunt" >>> Ribe, Denmark >>> From 30 june 2020 - Permanent exhibition >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.htm >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: IMG_5395.png >>> Type: image/png >>> Size: 113871 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> URL: < >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.png >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: 107457750_157381739207936_3979296757990523384_o 2.jpeg >>> Type: image/jpeg >>> Size: 26694 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> URL: < >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.jpeg >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com >> Business website: www.magikdoor.net >> +44(0)7555784775 >> >> > > -- > Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com > Business website: www.magikdoor.net > +44(0)7555784775 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201003/dd9447b8/attachment.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 10:23:01 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] speakers pointing away from center > Message-ID: > <CABx2juo6F9dd3tM-_3ek5Yxo2U=wv3hyztttse5xjzhgw+5...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > in which you CAN tell the software where the speakers are and ideally in > which direction they are facing. > > On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 at 10:20, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> just to elaborate with an example - I once had to pan a sound around an >> octagon of speakers "facing outward" - using a normal octaphonic panner >> worked with this just as well as if the speakers had been facing inward - >> because basically the software doesn't know where you've put speakers- it >> just uses panning laws to pan sounds from one speaker to the next, you just >> need to play around with speaker positions/directivty/panning law etc . I >> even used an octaphonic panner in which the software thought the speakers >> were in a nice circle - to pan a sound round a part of a maze once. You >> just have to watch your panning law/speaker positions so there's not too >> many holes in the panning - and make sure you're not trying to pan "across >> the circle" as obviously if your speakers are not in a circle it will lead >> to unpredictable results. This is a workaround - obviously some form of >> special DBAP software is preferred. >> >> On Sat, 3 Oct 2020 at 09:35, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi I do these kinds of things all the time - far more than ambisonics in >>> fact basically you want to use Dbap or just any form of amplitude panning. >>> You could try using ICST in max msp which allows you to draw a map of the >>> sp[eakers, adjust directivity and then pan the sound around said map, or >>> you could try Immersive DSPs Immergo system which will allow you to do a >>> similar thing with certain soundcards, I believe Spat has this capability >>> too. If Learning this software is too much for your time schedule you can >>> use normal surround sound panners in a way that they're not strictly meant >>> to be used. For example a normal quadraphonic panner will still pan a sound >>> up and down a straight line of 4 speakers instead of a square if you put >>> the speakers in a straight line instead of a square etc etc >>> all the best >>> Gus >>> >>> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 22:30, S?ren Bendixen <soerenbendi...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Surround group >>>> For my next exhibition sounddesign I need to make to set ups that is >>>> causing me some concern >>>> one set up is 4 speakers, another is 6 speakers (but are only feeded by >>>> 4 channels of sound) >>>> BUT for both set ups the speakers are point away from center. >>>> The speakers are arranged in a circle, They play out at an angle of >>>> approx. 30 - 40 degrees, seen from a horizontal angle, so they point >>>> upwards, a bit. Hope this is understandable. >>>> >>>> I usually work in reaper + Spat Revolution when I have to make "crazy" >>>> configurations, but this one I can not get drawn in spat R and I do not >>>> immediately know a program that can do such a set up. Next week I have to >>>> experiment with a similar high-pitched line-up - and think that I might >>>> just have to produce directly. >>>> I will try quad format first and see/hear what happens... >>>> >>>> One of the set ups is a Mammuth standing in a river. The sounddesign >>>> should "make the mammuth come alive - so I have one speaker for head, one >>>> for each side and one for the back of the animal. >>>> The diameter for the speaker circle is around one meter for this design, >>>> The diameter for the other design is approx. 2 meters. >>>> >>>> In both cases there must be a coherent sound design (in one set up we >>>> add speak). >>>> If anyone has ideas, experiences I would love to hear about it. >>>> >>>> Med venlig hilsen/Best regards >>>> >>>> S?ren Bendixen >>>> Composer/Sound Designer & Guitarist >>>> >>>> Company: Audiotect >>>> >>>> Radio Audiotect: Playlist < >>>> https://open.spotify.com/playlist/75xmPEKthgagQwwtvllfeJ?si=IqiVEz1lTOK9HKOXOtEcgQ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Latest Music and Sounddesign >>>> >>>> Stringquartet no. 1 - Release d. 200920 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "HEX - Museum for Witch Hunt" >>>> Ribe, Denmark >>>> From 30 june 2020 - Permanent exhibition >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: < >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.htm >>>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: IMG_5395.png >>>> Type: image/png >>>> Size: 113871 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: < >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.png >>>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: 107457750_157381739207936_3979296757990523384_o 2.jpeg >>>> Type: image/jpeg >>>> Size: 26694 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: < >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201002/538d72d5/attachment.jpeg >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sursound mailing list >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com >>> Business website: www.magikdoor.net >>> +44(0)7555784775 >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com >> Business website: www.magikdoor.net >> +44(0)7555784775 >> >> > > -- > Artist website: www.augustineleudar.com > Business website: www.magikdoor.net > +44(0)7555784775 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20201003/050f7fcb/attachment.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE > > ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Sursound Digest, Vol 147, Issue 1 > **************************************** _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
