Hi Phi, In my office I have a modest domestic scale ambisonic rig: 8 JBL Control 1's, a Yamaha 7.1 Receiver amp (and one channel of a Marantz amp for the eight speaker), and an active sub-woofer.
6 of the Control 1's are in a horizontal hexagon, with one hung overhead and one as near my feet as I can get it and still hear it properly. Obviously height is rather under-represented, but it seems to work fine with first-order ambisonics. You can hear that higher orders are working, but of course not properly. 8 speakers aren't really enough for even second-order anyway. Hearing is more sensitive horizontally than vertically, but there is a definitive sense of height and depth. Of course, it's not perfect. No acoustic treatment, no EQ or electronic "system correction", but the speakers are no more than around 80cm away. The "floor" speaker is nearest to any surface, so a noticeable bass boost, but that doesn't seem too unrealistic. It is my office and workshop after all. The hexagon is orientated with a central speaker above a video screen, and it has to double as a "5.1" system for DVDs etc., with a bit of channel juggling. I also use it to try out other "immersive audio" algorithms. My ambisonic encoders and decoder are built with Max, and I'm using the best first-order 3D decoder I know how to build. As for binaural decoding, I cannot really judge as I don't have other versions to compare with at the moment. I've worked a lot on decent sounding and useable binaural encoding in Max, but when applied to virtual speakers to recode ambisonics it begins to sound a bit "mushy" with more than about 6 virtual speakers (a quad plus one up, one down). The HRTFs are very complex, with all sorts of delays, peaks and notches, so perhaps that's not surprising. Seems better to directly binaurally encode, and use ambisonics for reverb where the "mush" doesn't matter so much. I keep meaning to try others' efforts at ambisonics to binaural, but life is full of other things that need doing. Pity that Max no longer enables writing plug-ins. As I understand it, BEAST is a flexible rather than a fixed system, that could accommodate a number of different approaches. As Augustine nearly says, no one approach is perfect for everything. Ciao, Dave Hunt On 29 Apr 2019, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote: > 1. Re: Study Comparing Ambisonic and Channel Based Systems (Phi Shu) > > From: Phi Shu <phi...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Study Comparing Ambisonic and Channel Based Systems > Date: 29 April 2019 16:09:43 BST > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >> You should consider Ambiophonics. > > > well, not sure it would integrate with my workflow, primarily using Nuendo > and Max right now. > > With four speakers and 4.0 media such as >> Dolby Atmos or Auro3D or B format, you can have a full circle of direct >> sound in the horizontal plane. >> > > Have zero interest in Dolby stuff (and currently using B-Format, 8 > speakers, double diamond), I'm talking about rigs like dude above > discusses, he mentions BEAST, there's ZKM, SARC, Notam, bunch of other > institutional spaces, as well as the 4D and Envelop dudes, these are all > propriety arrays, so what I'm talking about is some dude, working at home, > with 8 speakers, thinking about how a work might translate to one of those > rigs, what's the best strategy? in terms of getting some sense of height? > > >> You can have several listeners and you don't >> need head tracking. > > > Head tracking is not really I concern at this point. > > >> Height however does require more speakers but height >> hall ambience is easy to obtain. > > > OK, but again, the question, with an 8 speaker limitation, is a cube using > B-Format the best approach to get height, with phantom images operating as > "virtual" speakers? Or is using HOA mixing to headphones better? Or, just > stick one speaker overhead and use VBAP instead? Surely someone on here has > a clue about the best approach to this? > > >> Take a look at the miniDSP, Amtra, >> Soundpimp, NeutronMP, AmbiophonicsDSP, etc. Links, AES papers and >> tutorials >> at www.ambiophonics.org > > > I will look, thanks, but i ain't spending money on stuff. > > There are also sample demo 4.0 tracks available >> made with an Ambiophone, a 4.0 mic array originally conceived by seeing >> what >> happens when you combine two Soundfield mics and a shaped structure between >> them. See the papers by Robin Miller under the tab Recording Engineers >> Corner. See also the hall IRs furnished by Angelo Farina if you want >> ambient height for music. >> > > Thanks for the additional info will check it out. > > Cheers!! : ) > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of >> Augustine >> Leudar >> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 4:05 AM >> To: Surround Sound discussion group >> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Study Comparing Ambisonic and Channel Based Systems >> >> I havent done a study on it but ive done hundreds of compositions and >> installations and the differences are pretty obvious. Ambisonics is pretty >> good at filling a hole in the panning but vbap can be better under some >> circumstances. Ambisonics is pretty much useles if you want to say, makes >> sounds fly round a labarinth of corridors covering a festival area in which >> case dbap is better suited. Wfs handles focussed sources better. 5-,1 >> strictty speaking is a speaker array so you could have ambisonics over a >> 5.1 speaker setup. Ive toyed with the idea of doing a study comparing how >> well tecniques can get sounds to sppear close to a lustener between wfs , >> ambisonics and dbap but its pointless reslly as its obvious to anyone who >> uses these things what the results would be.All different tools for >> different jobs. >> >> On Friday, 19 April 2019, Michael Bevers <mbev...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I'm curious if anyone knows of, or has conducted, any studies comparing >> an >>> Ambisonic system to a channel-based system? For example, a comparison of >> an >>> Auro 3-D system with an Ambisonic system. Or even just a 5.1 surround >>> system with an Ambisonic system. >>> >>> I haven't found any studies myself directly comparing the two, even >> through >>> AES. >>> >>> Thanks for any help, >>> Michael >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ >>> attachments/20190419/8966cd12/attachment.html> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >>> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Augustine Leudar >> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD >> Company Number : NI635217 >> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, >> Belfast BT88LL >> www.magikdoor.net >> +44(0)7555784775 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> < >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190420/cc6 >> 3b0e9/attachment.html >> <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190420/cc63b0e9/attachment.html> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit >> account or options, view archives and so on. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sursound mailing list >> Sursound@music.vt.edu >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20190429/0d1dce55/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE > > ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
