Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't
know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what
Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the
objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some
problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as
well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time, I
used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic music
style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The purpose
is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential
sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected to
use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite
different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer as
well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides,
combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have
tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works,
combination is one of a choice.
About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate
another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all
senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is
intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that
would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided
informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting
point to be research.
------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Peter Lennox";<p.len...@derby.ac.uk>;
Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<sursound@music.vt.edu>;
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
audio altering visual perception.
it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
instances.
Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk<mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk>
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK
________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com>
Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
with delusions of grandeur........
On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote:
I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
side
so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
ones.
It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
Dave
On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
Wot he said...
Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
Augustine Leudar
Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
audio
cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
play
with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
-
but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
cognitive
and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
the
smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
and
effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
trying
to
transport them to is..
Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
the
world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
important
to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
override
audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
-
I
have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
actually
work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
the
other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
topic -
from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
a
headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
determining
how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
get
away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
am
also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
I
make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
to
be
hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
etc) .
I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
like
"sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
actually
is
clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
yourself
get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
makes
your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
engaged.
On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
to enrich music and sound art?"
- but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
(acceleration, change of
direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
(Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
in
this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
lives.
Good luck!
Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155
https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK
-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
??
Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
To: sursound <sursound@music.vt.edu>
Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
questions,here is a brief description :
1 The study purpose and sub-questions
1.1 Main Purpose
For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
to
combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
perception experiences?
1.2 Perception
For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
principles?
1.3Cognition
In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
(understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
etc.).
In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
like
"access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
artworks
rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
1.4 Development
To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
1.5 Sound sculpture
As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
sculpture" mentioned here.
As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
a
research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
manipulate
the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
result to form a final dissertation.
Thank you very much,
Yilin
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As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
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'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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