4 On 30 Jun 2017 11:30, <sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu> wrote:
> Send Sursound mailing list submissions to > sursound@music.vt.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sursound-ow...@music.vt.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Sursound digest..." > > > WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE > > ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY > > You are receiving the digest so when replying, please remember to edit > your Subject line to that of the original message you are replying to, so > it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Sursound-list digest…" the > subject should match the post you are replying to. > > Also, please EDIT the quoted post so that it is not the entire digest, but > just the post you are replying to - this will keep the archive useful and > not polluted with extraneous posts. > > This is the responsibility of digest subscribers. the community and list > subscribers care about the integrity of the threads and archives so this is > important. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations > (Richard Foss) > 2. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations > (Augustine Leudar) > 3. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations > (Augustine Leudar) > 4. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations > (Richard Foss) > 5. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations > (Augustine Leudar) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:33:48 +0200 > From: Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > installations > Message-ID: <2a103276-900a-4b8b-adc0-251ebc583...@ru.ac.za> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the flexibility > and capability of Max/MSP. > > Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation > determination. > > The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle) > around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two > dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the third > dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone > orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to > indicate the location of the sound. > > The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker > arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently > setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a > sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their > algorithms freely available!! > > A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. Currently > using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated. > > > > On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this system > > in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I do > > that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your > > hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a > map > > of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive > seen a > > lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already > pretty > > happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I > > couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with the > > AVB system. > > > > On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > >> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real > >> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, > using a > >> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and the > >> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you > type > >> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a > >> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the > >> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the > speakers. > >> > >> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels with > >> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed > channels?) > >> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio > style), > >> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded. > >> > >> Richard. > >> > >>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > >>> > >>> That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go > >> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). > >>> > >>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can > link > >> together switches for larger port numbers. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar < > >> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Richard - > >>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet > >> out of > >>>> the mac ? > >>>> > >>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za <mailto: > >> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: > >>>>> > >>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to > >> run > >>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? > >>>>> > >>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So > >> for > >>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the > >>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each > >>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. > >>>>> > >>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus > >> audio > >>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to > >> 120 > >>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate > >> passive > >>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. > >>>>> > >>>>> Here is a bit more info: > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www > < > >> http://www/>. > >>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- < > >> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> > >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> > >>>>> > >>>>> Richard. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > >> augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick > to > >>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain > for > >>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them as > >> well > >>>>>> as audio. > >>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p > >>>>>> > >>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy > >> chain > >>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate > >> ethernet > >>>>>> cable to each one ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > >> will > >>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. > >>>>> Perhaps > >>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but > >> anything > >>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Ciao, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Dave > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > >>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > >>>>> installations > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi Richard - > >>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > >>>>> soundscape is > >>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its > just a > >>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > do > >> are > >>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > >> around > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > >> might > >>>>> be > >>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > the > >> way > >>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable..... > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme > >>>>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >> here, > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Augustine Leudar > >>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >> here, > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>> > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ < > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/> > >>>>> attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > here, > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Augustine Leudar > >>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >> attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html < > https://mail.music.vt.edu/ > >> mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/ > attachment.html>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >> attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Augustine Leudar > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > Company Number : NI635217 > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > Belfast BT88LL > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:37:20 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > installations > Message-ID: > <CABx2jurRMuwrgSHTireV6=+m2JHZ1NWcrvGGE=yc58s7kXnXTA@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Funny - I have been involved in two 3d audio tunnels recently - if you ever > want to sync max up with your stuff let me know - I have also been matching > max with Unity and other 3D technologies recently which has produced > interesting results. Im doing a demo in London around the beginning of > September if you're around PM me :) > > On 30 June 2017 at 09:33, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the > flexibility > > and capability of Max/MSP. > > > > Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation > > determination. > > > > The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle) > > around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two > > dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the > third > > dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone > > orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to > > indicate the location of the sound. > > > > The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker > > arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently > > setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a > > sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their > > algorithms freely available!! > > > > A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. Currently > > using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated. > > > > > > > On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this > system > > > in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I > do > > > that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your > > > hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a > > map > > > of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive > > seen a > > > lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already > > pretty > > > happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I > > > couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with > the > > > AVB system. > > > > > > On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > > > >> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real > > >> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, > > using a > > >> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and > the > > >> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you > > type > > >> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a > > >> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the > > >> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the > > speakers. > > >> > > >> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels > with > > >> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed > > channels?) > > >> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio > > style), > > >> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded. > > >> > > >> Richard. > > >> > > >>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will > go > > >> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). > > >>> > > >>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can > > link > > >> together switches for larger port numbers. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > >> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Richard - > > >>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet > > >> out of > > >>>> the mac ? > > >>>> > > >>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za <mailto: > > >> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have > to > > >> run > > >>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. > So > > >> for > > >>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to > the > > >>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and > each > > >>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus > > >> audio > > >>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up > to > > >> 120 > > >>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate > > >> passive > > >>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Here is a bit more info: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > > >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ < > http://www > > < > > >> http://www/>. > > >>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- < > > >> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> > > >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Richard. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > >> augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill > stick > > to > > >>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain > > for > > >>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them > as > > >> well > > >>>>>> as audio. > > >>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy > > >> chain > > >>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate > > >> ethernet > > >>>>>> cable to each one ? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > > >> will > > >>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. > > >>>>> Perhaps > > >>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but > > >> anything > > >>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Ciao, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Dave > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > >>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > >>>>> installations > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hi Richard - > > >>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > >>>>> soundscape is > > >>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its > > just a > > >>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > > do > > >> are > > >>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > >> around > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > > >> might > > >>>>> be > > >>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > > the > > >> way > > >>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > cable..... > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachme > > >>>>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Augustine Leudar > > >>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >>>>> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/> > > >>>>> attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > > here, > > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Augustine Leudar > > >>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >> attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html < > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/ > > >> mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/ > > attachment.html>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>> > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >> attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Sursound mailing list > > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sursound mailing list > > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Augustine Leudar > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170630/8494e014/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:39:28 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > installations > Message-ID: > <CABx2juqPZpKVvGiMPHqsfe-+hh6bCPdVpJTVczY1XspLQ=5cww@ > mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > by the way have you already done this thing pointing the phone and > indicating a sound in 3d space - if so do you have a link to it ? > This is a pretty crappy video of very early prototype I did a few years ago > - but things have moved on a lot since this : > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cmodvSM5jE > > On 30 June 2017 at 09:33, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the > flexibility > > and capability of Max/MSP. > > > > Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation > > determination. > > > > The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle) > > around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two > > dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the > third > > dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone > > orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to > > indicate the location of the sound. > > > > The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker > > arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently > > setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a > > sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their > > algorithms freely available!! > > > > A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. Currently > > using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated. > > > > > > > On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this > system > > > in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I > do > > > that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your > > > hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a > > map > > > of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive > > seen a > > > lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already > > pretty > > > happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I > > > couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with > the > > > AVB system. > > > > > > On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > > > >> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real > > >> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, > > using a > > >> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and > the > > >> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you > > type > > >> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a > > >> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the > > >> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the > > speakers. > > >> > > >> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels > with > > >> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed > > channels?) > > >> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio > > style), > > >> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded. > > >> > > >> Richard. > > >> > > >>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will > go > > >> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). > > >>> > > >>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can > > link > > >> together switches for larger port numbers. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > >> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Richard - > > >>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet > > >> out of > > >>>> the mac ? > > >>>> > > >>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za <mailto: > > >> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have > to > > >> run > > >>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. > So > > >> for > > >>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to > the > > >>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and > each > > >>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus > > >> audio > > >>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up > to > > >> 120 > > >>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate > > >> passive > > >>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Here is a bit more info: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > > >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ < > http://www > > < > > >> http://www/>. > > >>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- < > > >> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> > > >>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Richard. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > >> augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill > stick > > to > > >>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain > > for > > >>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them > as > > >> well > > >>>>>> as audio. > > >>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy > > >> chain > > >>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate > > >> ethernet > > >>>>>> cable to each one ? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > > >> will > > >>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. > > >>>>> Perhaps > > >>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but > > >> anything > > >>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Ciao, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Dave > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > >>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > >>>>> installations > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hi Richard - > > >>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > >>>>> soundscape is > > >>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its > > just a > > >>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > > do > > >> are > > >>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > >> around > > >>>>> the > > >>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > > >> might > > >>>>> be > > >>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > > the > > >> way > > >>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > cable..... > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachme > > >>>>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Augustine Leudar > > >>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >>>>> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/> > > >>>>> attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > > here, > > >>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Augustine Leudar > > >>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >> attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html < > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/ > > >> mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/ > > attachment.html>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>> > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >> attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Sursound mailing list > > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sursound mailing list > > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Augustine Leudar > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170630/af720501/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:23:24 +0200 > From: Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > installations > Message-ID: <a761b82b-d184-4f7b-86a0-6fdda7251...@ru.ac.za> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > That?s an inspiring video, thanks! > > And many points of contact. A few years back we used the Microsoft Kinect > to allow for hand control over sound localization, much like you appear to > be using the wii in the video. This worked well, except for the fact that > the user had to be positioned in a fairly confined area. The mobile device > control removes this restriction. > > Last year we used Unity and the Oculus with the LeapMotion controller to > create a virtual room and move ?grabable? sound sources around it. We tried > providing the audio over headphones using Unity?s capabilities, and also > Immergo (DBAP) over speakers. Interestingly the test subjects preferred the > external speakers. > > Yes, I have used the phone?s orientation capabilities to indicate a > sound?s localization, but don?t have a video of it. You can see the layout > on the phone here: > > https://www.immersivedsp.com/ <https://www.immersivedsp.com/> > > Checkboxes at the bottom select the various axes. The purple circle can be > touch-moved for two dimensions, and the white rectangle indicates > height.The blue circles indicate already recorded tracks that move with the > playback of the sound. > > Would love to make the London demo and if possible will contact you, > thanks! > > > > On 30 Jun 2017, at 10:39 AM, Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > by the way have you already done this thing pointing the phone and > > indicating a sound in 3d space - if so do you have a link to it ? > > This is a pretty crappy video of very early prototype I did a few years > ago > > - but things have moved on a lot since this : > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cmodvSM5jE > > > > On 30 June 2017 at 09:33, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > >> That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the > flexibility > >> and capability of Max/MSP. > >> > >> Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation > >> determination. > >> > >> The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle) > >> around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two > >> dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the > third > >> dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone > >> orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to > >> indicate the location of the sound. > >> > >> The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker > >> arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently > >> setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a > >> sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their > >> algorithms freely available!! > >> > >> A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. > Currently > >> using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated. > >> > >> > >>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this > system > >>> in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I > do > >>> that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your > >>> hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a > >> map > >>> of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive > >> seen a > >>> lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already > >> pretty > >>> happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I > >>> couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with > the > >>> AVB system. > >>> > >>> On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > >>> > >>>> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real > >>>> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, > >> using a > >>>> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and > the > >>>> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you > >> type > >>>> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a > >>>> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the > >>>> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the > >> speakers. > >>>> > >>>> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels > with > >>>> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed > >> channels?) > >>>> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio > >> style), > >>>> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded. > >>>> > >>>> Richard. > >>>> > >>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will > go > >>>> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). > >>>>> > >>>>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can > >> link > >>>> together switches for larger port numbers. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar < > >>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Richard - > >>>>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet > >>>> out of > >>>>>> the mac ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za <mailto: > >>>> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have > to > >>>> run > >>>>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. > So > >>>> for > >>>>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to > the > >>>>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and > each > >>>>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus > >>>> audio > >>>>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up > to > >>>> 120 > >>>>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate > >>>> passive > >>>>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Here is a bit more info: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > >>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ < > http://www > >> < > >>>> http://www/>. > >>>>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- < > >>>> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> > >>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Richard. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > >>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill > stick > >> to > >>>>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain > >> for > >>>>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them > as > >>>> well > >>>>>>>> as audio. > >>>>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy > >>>> chain > >>>>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate > >>>> ethernet > >>>>>>>> cable to each one ? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <davehuntau...@btinternet.com > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input > >>>> will > >>>>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable. > >>>>>>> Perhaps > >>>>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but > >>>> anything > >>>>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Ciao, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Dave > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > >>>>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > >>>>>>> installations > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Richard - > >>>>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > >>>>>>> soundscape is > >>>>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its > >> just a > >>>>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I > >> do > >>>> are > >>>>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > >>>> around > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing > >>>> might > >>>>>>> be > >>>>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like > >> the > >>>> way > >>>>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > cable..... > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachme > >>>>>>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > >>>> here, > >>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Augustine Leudar > >>>>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>>>>> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >>>> here, > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ < > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/> > >>>>>>> attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > >> here, > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Augustine Leudar > >>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>> attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html < > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/ > >>>> mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/ > >> attachment.html>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > >> here, > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>>> > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >>>> attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > >> here, > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sursound mailing list > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Augustine Leudar > >>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > >>> Company Number : NI635217 > >>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > >>> Belfast BT88LL > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >> attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sursound mailing list > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > >> attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sursound mailing list > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Augustine Leudar > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > Company Number : NI635217 > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > Belfast BT88LL > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170630/af720501/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170630/400c9e99/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:29:54 +0100 > From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > installations > Message-ID: > <CABx2juovoR_b3-kAx_1UaC1i0DU2EbvO3eH_i- > jr6yezcte...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Richard - Ive also being using the leap a lot - its great but a bit > buggy sometimes when you get outside the infrared area , you can see it > used in a big neolithic site here : > > https://vimeo.com/217058501 > > I had a friend who used the connect which was also fine but a bit buggy. > Do you have a link to the stuff you did with the leap ? > anyway yes Ill message you near the time , > best, > Gus > > On 30 June 2017 at 10:23, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > That?s an inspiring video, thanks! > > > > And many points of contact. A few years back we used the Microsoft Kinect > > to allow for hand control over sound localization, much like you appear > to > > be using the wii in the video. This worked well, except for the fact that > > the user had to be positioned in a fairly confined area. The mobile > device > > control removes this restriction. > > > > Last year we used Unity and the Oculus with the LeapMotion controller to > > create a virtual room and move ?grabable? sound sources around it. We > tried > > providing the audio over headphones using Unity?s capabilities, and also > > Immergo (DBAP) over speakers. Interestingly the test subjects preferred > the > > external speakers. > > > > Yes, I have used the phone?s orientation capabilities to indicate a > > sound?s localization, but don?t have a video of it. You can see the > layout > > on the phone here: > > > > https://www.immersivedsp.com/ <https://www.immersivedsp.com/> > > > > Checkboxes at the bottom select the various axes. The purple circle can > be > > touch-moved for two dimensions, and the white rectangle indicates > > height.The blue circles indicate already recorded tracks that move with > the > > playback of the sound. > > > > Would love to make the London demo and if possible will contact you, > > thanks! > > > > > > > On 30 Jun 2017, at 10:39 AM, Augustine Leudar < > augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > by the way have you already done this thing pointing the phone and > > > indicating a sound in 3d space - if so do you have a link to it ? > > > This is a pretty crappy video of very early prototype I did a few years > > ago > > > - but things have moved on a lot since this : > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cmodvSM5jE > > > > > > On 30 June 2017 at 09:33, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > > > > >> That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the > > flexibility > > >> and capability of Max/MSP. > > >> > > >> Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation > > >> determination. > > >> > > >> The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle) > > >> around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two > > >> dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the > > third > > >> dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone > > >> orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to > > >> indicate the location of the sound. > > >> > > >> The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual > speaker > > >> arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently > > >> setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a > > >> sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made > their > > >> algorithms freely available!! > > >> > > >> A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. > > Currently > > >> using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated. > > >> > > >> > > >>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this > > system > > >>> in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - > I > > do > > >>> that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on > your > > >>> hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have > a > > >> map > > >>> of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive > > >> seen a > > >>> lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already > > >> pretty > > >>> happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I > > >>> couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with > > the > > >>> AVB system. > > >>> > > >>> On 29 June 2017 at 22:28, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in > real > > >>>> time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space, > > >> using a > > >>>> client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and > > the > > >>>> client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you > > >> type > > >>>> in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a > > >>>> representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back > the > > >>>> movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the > > >> speakers. > > >>>> > > >>>> So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels > > with > > >>>> movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed > > >> channels?) > > >>>> or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio > > >> style), > > >>>> where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded. > > >>>> > > >>>> Richard. > > >>>> > > >>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:52 PM, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will > > go > > >>>> into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc). > > >>>>> > > >>>>> The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can > > >> link > > >>>> together switches for larger port numbers. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > >>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Richard - > > >>>>>> So if I have this right no interface is required - just the > ethernet > > >>>> out of > > >>>>>> the mac ? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 20:49, Richard Foss <r.f...@ru.ac.za <mailto: > > >>>> r.f...@ru.ac.za>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi Augustine, to answer this question about the SPK-4Ps: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you > have > > to > > >>>> run > > >>>>>>> a seperate ethernet cable to each one? > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each > one. > > So > > >>>> for > > >>>>>>> example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to > > the > > >>>>>>> outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and > > each > > >>>>>>> speaker would listen to one of the outputs. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a > Merus > > >>>> audio > > >>>>>>> Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up > > to > > >>>> 120 > > >>>>>>> speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate > > >>>> passive > > >>>>>>> speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Here is a bit more info: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- > > >>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ < > > http://www > > >> < > > >>>> http://www/>. > > >>>>>>> technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- < > > >>>> http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-> > > >>>>>>> integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Richard. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar < > > >>>> augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill > > stick > > >> to > > >>>>>>>> passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a > pain > > >> for > > >>>>>>>> larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to > them > > as > > >>>> well > > >>>>>>>> as audio. > > >>>>>>>> These look like they might be OK for some stuff : > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you > daisy > > >>>> chain > > >>>>>>>> them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate > > >>>> ethernet > > >>>>>>>> cable to each one ? > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt < > davehuntau...@btinternet.com > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB > input > > >>>> will > > >>>>>>>>> require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet > cable. > > >>>>>>> Perhaps > > >>>>>>>>> for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but > > >>>> anything > > >>>>>>>>> decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> The available current may power the DAC though. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Ciao, > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Dave > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> From: Augustine Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>>>>>> Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT > > >>>>>>>>>> To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent > > >>>>>>> installations > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Richard - > > >>>>>>>>>> There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the > > >>>>>>> soundscape is > > >>>>>>>>>> designed in pre production for this installation and then its > > >> just a > > >>>>>>>>>> multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other > installations I > > >> do > > >>>> are > > >>>>>>>>>> interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime > > >>>> around > > >>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>>> space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB > thing > > >>>> might > > >>>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>>> good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially > like > > >> the > > >>>> way > > >>>>>>>>>> power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet > > cable..... > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachme > > >>>>>>>>> nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > > unsubscribe > > >>>> here, > > >>>>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Augustine Leudar > > >>>>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>>>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>>>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>>>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >>>>>>> attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html> > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > > >>>> here, > > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ < > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/> > > >>>>>>> attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html> > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Augustine Leudar > > >>>>>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>>>>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>>>>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>>>>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >>>> attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html < > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/ > > >>>> mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/ > > >> attachment.html>> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu <mailto:Sursound@music.vt.edu> > > >>>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound < > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >>>> attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > >> here, > > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Sursound mailing list > > >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > >>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Augustine Leudar > > >>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > >>> Company Number : NI635217 > > >>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > >>> Belfast BT88LL > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >> attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Sursound mailing list > > >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > >> attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Sursound mailing list > > >> Sursound@music.vt.edu > > >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > >> edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Augustine Leudar > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170630/af720501/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170630/400c9e99/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -- > Augustine Leudar > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > Company Number : NI635217 > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > Belfast BT88LL > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > attachments/20170630/84b89341/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound > > WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE > > ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Sursound Digest, Vol 107, Issue 18 > ***************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170630/72ad31c2/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
