On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Aaron Heller <hel...@ai.sri.com> wrote:
> ISO/IEC 14496-11 "Information technology — Coding of audio-visual objects > —Part 11: Scene description and application engine" (second edition, dated > 11/2013; see Table 9 in page 36) > > and > > ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29/WG11 MPEG2015//N15268 "Encoder Input Format for MPEG-H > 3D Audio" (w15286, dated 2/2015; see Section 4.1), > > show HOA components in Daniel's SID order. (0,0; 1,1; 1,-1; 2,2; 2,-2, > 2,1, 2,-1, 2,0; ...) > Should be... (0,0; 1,1; 1,-1; 1,0; 2,2; 2,-2; 2,1; 2,-1; 2,0; ...) > > I'll admit I don't follow MPEG activities closely. Have those been > superseded? > > Best... > > Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) > Menlo Park, CA US > > > > On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 5:20 AM, Richard Furse <rich...@muse440.com> > wrote: > > > > N3D/ACN > > > > > http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/standards/mpeg-h/3d-audio/dis-mpeg-h-3d-audio > > > > Best wishes, > > > > --Richard > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > > > Sönke Pelzer > > > Sent: 24 March 2016 11:55 > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Furse-Malham to ACN conversion > > > > > > Hi Aaron, > > > > > > I looked up some recent MPEG-H papers, but couldn't find information > about > > > their HOA channel ordering and normalization scheme. > > > Could you please point me to these? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Sönke > > > > > > > > > 2016-03-24 7:25 GMT+01:00 Aaron Heller <hel...@ai.sri.com>: > > > > > > > Martin, > > > > > > > > Note that while AmbDec can accommodate FuMa normalization on input, > it > > > > still makes the connections to jack in ACN order so the inputs will > often > > > > appear in Jack in ACN order (and never in FuMa order). I say "often" > > > > because the Jack API does not have any notion of the 'order' of an > > > > application's ports. To make matters worse, some jack control > clients, > > > > like qjackctl, sort the ports by name, so they appear in the GUI in > FuMa > > > > order, but if you simply do a 'bulk connect' you'll find the > individual > > > > connections were made in ACN order. You really have to check the > port > > > > names carefully when connecting. > > > > > > > > The ADT can generate decoders in Faust with any combination of the > the > > > > channel order and normalization conventions that I'm aware of (FuMa, > > > ACN, > > > > MPEG-H, ...). Those can be completed to VST and used in Reaper. > > > > > > > > There are also 3rd-order FuMa and 5th-order panners for Ambix/ACN > (the > > > > latter thanks to Florian Grond). They are in the faust directory, > > > > called ambi_panner_fms.dsp and ambi_panner_5_ACN.dsp. They have a > > > built > > > > in pink noise source with is useful for testing. > > > > > > > > It can also generate adapter matrices to convert signals between any > of the > > > > order and normalization conventions. An example of an Ambix to FuMa > > > > converter is in ambix2fuma.dsp . > > > > > > > > Also.... feel free to send me the ADT setup you're using, if you'd > like me > > > > to check it. > > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Dave Malham > > > <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Martin (and Eric!), > > > > > One very simple thing I would do, before doing anything else, > with > > > > any > > > > > system that's playing, as we say, silly bu..ers, is just to play a > well > > > > > localisable sound out of each speaker (on its own) in turn and > check that > > > > > (a) it's coming out of the speaker it should (all connections are > > > > correct) > > > > > and that it sounds like it's coming from the direction you think it > > > > should > > > > > (acoustics not too disruptive). If you really want to be picky, > stick a > > > > > soundfield type mic at the nominal centre point and check correct B > > > > format > > > > > signals are produced for each speaker location at the same time. > Only > > > > then > > > > > start worrying about decoders, plugin connections and the rest. I > once > > > > > worked out that in a simple 1st order system driving a cube of > speakers, > > > > > there are 16 million ways of it going wrong, without counting > individual > > > > > component failures in amps, etc. Of course, lots of these ways of > going > > > > > wrong are self cancelling (*both* ends of speaker cable can be > > > connected > > > > > wrongly, cancelling out the polarity inversion, for instance) > which is a > > > > > darn good job otherwise our job would be near impossible. So, > checking > > > > the > > > > > simple things first is a good way to avoid delving around the > complex.. > > > > > > > > > > Good luck > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 23 March 2016 at 18:13, Eric Benjamin <eb...@pacbell.net> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > "In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random places, > > > and a > > > > > > number of positions went practically silent." > > > > > > What is needed, not just for you, but for everyone, is a > comprehensive > > > > > set > > > > > > of test files. It may be that your loudspeakers aren't where the > system > > > > > > thinks they are (wrong speaker assignments), or it may be that > that the > > > > > > decoder is doing the wrong thing. I have more extensive versions > of > > > > test > > > > > > files, including "with height" like the eight directions files on > > > > > > Ambisonia., featuring the voice of the lovely Haley Jo. I could > upload > > > > > > those if anyone would like them. > > > > > > You can then use metering to determine if the specific sounds > light up > > > > > the > > > > > > speaker(s) that they should. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier< > > > > > > netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote: On 03/22/2016 07:49 PM, > > > Martin > > > > > > Dupras wrote: > > > > > > > Today I tried playback sources in third order Ambisonics on a > 8+6+1 > > > > > > > hemispheric speaker array using Reaper. It didn't quite work as > > > > > > > intended so I'm trying to figure out where I've gone wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was using the Blue Ripple TOA-Core panner plugin to position > the > > > > > > > sound. I understand that Blue Rippler plugins use the > Furse-Malham > > > > > > > convention. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only decoders that I could find to decode to my specific > array > > > > > > > (using coefficients that I calculated using the Ambisonics > Decoder > > > > > > > Toolkit) were the Ambix Plug-ins and AmbDec. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I tried Ambix first, which I understand uses the ACN ordering > > > > > > > convention. I tried re-ordering the channels based on > information > > > > that > > > > > > > I found here: > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats#ACN. > > > > > > > But that didn't really work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I then tried to run 16 outputs out of Reaper into Jack, and > from Jack > > > > > > > into AmbDec, again using my ADT-calculated coefficients. I > > > understand > > > > > > > that AmbDec uses the Furse-Malham convention, so I would have > > > thought > > > > > > > it was compatible with the output of the Blue Rippler plugins. > But > > > > > > > again, that didn't really work well at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In both cases the sound was coming from seemingly random > places, > > > and > > > > a > > > > > > > number of positions went practically silent. > > > > > > > > > > > > To debug erratic panning behaviour, start with first order, > verify, and > > > > > > work your way up from there. To make sure the error is not in > your > > > > > > calculated coefficients, try to use a known-good decoding matrix > that > > > > > > approximates what you have, before feeding in your optimized one. > > > > > > > > > > > > With Ambdec, weird things can happen if you connect several ins > at the > > > > > > same time using some graphical client, because the order shown > in for > > > > > > example qjackctl is lexical, whereas the internal order is > different. > > > > So > > > > > > you will end up with garbled connections. You can feed an ACN > signal > > > > > > into ambdec succesfully if you choose SN3D input scaling _and_ > > > manually > > > > > > connect the inputs correctly. > > > > > > This wikipedia article > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic_data_exchange_formats > > > > > > has some information on that, and other pitfalls when interfacing > > > > > > different formats. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jörn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Jörn Nettingsmeier > > > > > > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > > > > > > > > > > > Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) > > > > > > Tonmeister VDT > > > > > > > > > > > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > > > > here, > > > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2016032 > > > 3/e78a01ce/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - > unsubscribe > > > > here, > > > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > > > > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the > University > > > > > > > > > > Dave Malham > > > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > > > > > The University of York > > > > > York YO10 5DD > > > > > UK > > > > > > > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2016032 > > > 3/5c9221ca/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2016032 > > > 3/3202fffd/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Dipl.-Ing. Sönke Pelzer > > > > > > Institut für Technische Akustik (ITA) > > > RWTH Aachen > > > Kopernikusstraße 5 > > > 52074 Aachen > > > > > > Phone +49 (0) 241 80 97924 > > > Fax +49 (0) 241 80 92214 > > > Mail soenke.pel...@akustik.rwth-aachen.de > > > Web http://www.akustik.rwth-aachen.de > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: > > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/201603 > > > 24/5fabae99/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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