Hi Tim, A higher order ambisonic full-periphony presentation of a bird is a "simulation" or a mimetic representation of the behaviour of sound (of a sound) in space. It is a form of presentation that is well characterised by academic concerned with the notion of 'presence'.
One very useful definition of the word 'presence' is provided by Lombard and Ditton who say that presence can be understood as "the illusion of non-mediation". In other words, there is a suspension of disbelief ... and at some point, the listener "accepts" that what is heard is real instead of merely simulated (or mediated). At no point, would a listener "accept" that an orchestral performance of a work, say by Messiaen, is actually a bird. But in a Messiaen work, the notion of a bird may well be referenced. And that brings with it qualities of space. My point is (or my interest is): what is the aesthetic movement of the illusion of reality? (as opposed to mere 'signs'). How do illusions of reality contribute to the aesthetic worth, or the expression, of a composition? You might say that it brings the suspension of disbelief ... but when a listener sits down in a concert hall they have already accepted, they have already agreed, to suspend disbelief. Otherwise, instead of hearing 'music' they would hear instruments. Etienne On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Timothy Schmele <tim.schm...@barcelonamedia.org> wrote: > A large space coming out of a mono speaker sounds like a large space coming > out of a mono speaker. > > There is no "illusion", there is only what *is*, which is the matter of what > is presented to you. The medium through which a sound is presented is just > as present. Icons may exist, but they are still icons presented through a > single point source, a space squashed into sound singularity. I assume if > you would compare the sound of a bird through a mono speaker and a > periphonic higher order ambisonic recording, you hear a difference. Hence, > of what quality would you call this difference, if you already call a mono > reproduction "3D"? > > > > On 3/7/14 2:07 AM, etienne deleflie wrote: >> >> Mono could also be understood as 4D (or 3D space) .... in the sense >> that one can easily recognise certain acoustic spaces with a mono >> recording..... such as a recording of someone talking in a church. >> >> There will be very clear cues, within that recording, that the voice >> was captured within a large space that has high ceilings and is >> bounded by hard surfaces. >> >> The difference, of course, is that here the perception of space occurs >> through 'references' that exist within the sound.... rather than >> through experiencing the simulation or mimesis of sensory data. >> >> And by extension a piece of music performed by an orchestra can also >> be understood as 4D in the sense that musical form can also allude to >> space. In the mono sound recording the reference to space can be >> classified as an 'icon' (after Peirce's Semiological framework) the >> captured reverberation 'sounds similar' to the sound of a real >> experienced church. In a piece of music, the reference might be >> 'indexical': if you hear a bird-like sound, it might reference some >> form of height. >> >> That said, some pieces of music, such as Ligeti's Lontano, very >> clearly reference space as 'icons'. The long slow changes in sound >> loundness 'sound similar' to the real-world witnessing of moving >> through large landscapes. >> >> The important question, for the composer, is which holds the greater >> aesthetic movement? Is it the illusion of reality that is possible >> with technology and simulation? ... or is it the realm of meaning that >> the listener is enveloped by when listening to musical form? >> >> Etienne >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:42 PM, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> >> wrote: >>> >>> Ah, but if that's the case, mono is 2-D sound, stereo is 3-D >>> sound........ >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> On 5 March 2014 11:08, Ronald C.F. Antony <r...@cubiculum.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 5 Mar 2014, at 11:58, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And now, 4-D sound >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2014/03/full-immersion-audio-artists-explore-4dsound-spatial-grid-omni-speakers-ableton-max-lemur/ >>>>> >>>>> X, Y, Z and....... >>>> >>>> Time, it's 3-D sound in Space-Time ;) >>>> >>>> Ronald >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sursound mailing list >>>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. >>> >>> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University >>> >>> Dave Malham >>> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music >>> The University of York >>> York YO10 5DD >>> UK >>> >>> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20140305/707e58e6/attachment.html> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sursound mailing list >>> Sursound@music.vt.edu >>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound >> >> >> > > -- > Documento sin título > > *Timothy Schmele* > *Audio Researcher > > *<http://www.barcelonamedia.org/> > > *Barcelona Media* > Av. Diagonal 177, 08018 Barcelona, Spain. > Tel: (+34) 932 381 400 | Mob: (+34) 673 986 061 | Fax: (+34) 933 093 188 > tim.schm...@barcelonamedia.org <mailto:tim.schm...@barcelonamedia.org> | > www.barcelonamedia.org <http://www.barcelonamedia.org/> > > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Barcelona-Media/248401718551715> > <https://twitter.com/#%21/barcelona_media> > <http://www.youtube.com/user/BarcelonaMediaTV> > <http://www.linkedin.com/company/293860?trk=tyah> > CONFIDENCIALITAT: Aquest missatge és confidencial i per a ús exclusiu del > seu destinatari. > RESPECTEM EL MEDI AMBIENT: Necessita realment imprimir aquest missatge? > > > _______________________________________________ > Sursound mailing list > Sursound@music.vt.edu > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- http://etiennedeleflie.net _______________________________________________ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
