This is really cool playground you have there "down under", Rohan. Thanks for sharing this challenge with us.
All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.bor...@gmail.com On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 12:32 AM Rohan M via Nnagain < nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Hi All, > > I am the Head of IT and Engineering for Flavorite, one of the largest > hydroponic glasshouse producers in the southern hemisphere with ~100ha > under glass. We predominantly focus on tomatoes, capsicums, cucumbers and > blueberries (the latter are not glasshouse grown). Glasshouse production is > typically 60% more water efficient than conventional cropping, or said > another way, it uses 1/3 of the water of conventional cropping. > > We have several different environments that span large distances and use a > myriad of different technologies to support them. > > In the glasshouses our biggest challenge is getting a signal through a > glass, a metal frame, and thick foliage which is >90% water. Foliage is > typically very dense and layered which creates a perfect sink for the > majority of signals. (eg > https://investgippsland.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Flavorite-2-e1574123141523-756x350.jpg > ) > > Glasshouse environments: > In the glasshouse we have long spans (varies but up to 400m/1312ft) of > centre paths that are up to 4m across and concreted (eg > https://www.atophort.com/files/News/202110/tomatoes-in-greenhouse.jpg ) > > The typical temperatures in the glasshouses ranges from about 20C (68F) to > 45C (113F) - more in direct sun during summer, with high humidity at times, > this is a barrier for a lot of devices, as it will push a processor idling > at 50C across the 95C threshold and cause it to crash. > > Primary communication there is via wifi, we often use 3 unifi points (Flex > HD/U6 mesh) to cover the centre path, but we are trialling the unifi Mesh > Pro AC points as they have shown to cover larger areas. Wifi (or any > signal) access down rows more than about 5m off the centre path generally > is poor, but with points up high enough we have enough to keep the fresnel > zones clear around the APs. One problem here is that we have to mount the > APs on steel uprights, which may or may not have hydronic heating tubes > nearby. > > Wireless communication for moisture sensing is done by proprietary > systems, but they typically use LoraWan, with a gateway to the main > network. These have poor propagation past 50m in these environments due to > the wavelengths and the foliage, so sometimes do not register correctly. > > Even though there is a 5g mobile repeater nearby (~1km away), getting > reception on any mobile network in a glasshouse is generally nigh > impossible. > > Warehouse/Packing environments: > Warehouse/Packing environments have a large amount of industrial equipment > for grading, packing, weighing and sorting fruit for delivery and > logistics. These environments typically have a lot of metal on the general > work floor which reflects or grounds signals. The walls and ceiling are > made of aluminum alloy which sandwiches insulation foam (as the whole area > is temperature controlled), there is heavy cement reinforced with rebar > fire walls between major sections, and a cement/concrete floor. The whole > structure acts as a Faraday's cage, so there are no signals going outside, > and inside, as mentioned, there is a lot of industrial equipment. > > Size of these environments approximates the same as glasshouses - 600m x > 300m typically. > > In this environment we have approximately 60-80 wifi devices, a lot of > people who use "wi-fi calling" on mobile devices. 5g signal propagation in > such areas is non-existent, especially in rural areas. Boosters have been > tried, and failed, many times, with calls dropping out regularly. > > Getting any signal propagation across the environment is a challenge. > Typically how we handle this is by ceiling mounted APs, but we find that > without AP based SQM these units experience bufferbloat, which causes calls > to drop out, or pause. The typical farmer mentality in these instances is > to put in a bigger AP, but this has not solved the problem (even with the > enormous stadium type units). The next stage here is to try more APs in > strategic locations. > > It should be noted that in some such environments there are multiple very > large, 16kva (or above) pumps which have large magnetic fields despite > isolation etc. The way we've managed that is by having more density of > points in those areas, which improves things but doesn't solve them. > > Blueberry fields: > Blueberry fields are similar to glasshouses, plants grow up to 1.7m > (5ft6in) and have dense foliage, similar layout to inside of a glasshouse, > however larger areas (500m/1640ft square is typical) with varying degrees > of elevation depending on the site. Getting a signal here is also a > challenge. So far we have deployed Unifi Mesh Pro AC units at the top of > treated pine poles around 2M up, three of these units allow long distance > wifi down the main paths (circa 350-400m range each), and approximately > 10m/32ft into the blueberry rows. > > Typical applications here are tablets and phones for voip. Density of > client devices is much lower than the other environments, with 20 clients > typically per field at any time. > > > In summary - 4g/5g in these environments is of limited use due to lack of > ability to foster signal propagation and the fact that these locations are > rural, which means infrastructure typically is poor in the area. > > Cheers > Rohan M > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 11:44 PM Dave Taht <dave.t...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> (I am hoping others on this list with real-world AG experience can >> chime in? I enjoy realworld stories about present solutions and pain >> points[2]) >> >> I have often been dubious of the 5g hope to dominate any major >> component of a smart ag architecture except perhaps FWA, (where >> starlink is poised and people also want to run fiber) to give it a >> good run for the money- 5g chips are too big, too hard to power, and >> too complex, and come with a monthly billing model and other >> centralized requirements that make organic evolution and solid support >> in remote environments dicy and expensive. >> >> I freely concede that I may be wrong, that with sufficient subsidies, >> we will end up hanging the equivalent of a cellphone off of every >> suitably large piece of gear and ship all the data up to the cloud, >> rather than pre-process locally. Certainly the benefits of gps and >> drones are being shown every day, along with satellite weather and >> other forms of satellite analysis. [1] >> >> But the 5g sensor market? No. Nowadays smart sensors are easily >> constructed out of wifi devices such as these which cost 5 dollars or >> less: >> >> >> https://www.amazon.com/DORHEA-Development-Microcontroller-NodeMCU-32S-ESP-WROOM-32/dp/B086MJGFVV/ref=asc_df_B086MJGFVV/ >> >> And the more meshy LoRA stuff now has much better range (4 miles), at >> low complexity and power also. >> >> then there are things like amazon sidewalk: >> https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=UTF8&node=21328123011 >> >> And airtags. >> >> [1] On the other hand rigorous analysis of the food we produce has >> recently discovered a marked decline in the percentage of nutritious >> minerals over the past 100 years. Please see: >> >> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09637486.2021.1981831 >> >> How smart is that? >> >> [2] Massive subsidy and diversion of river resources to the water >> hungry california almond industry during the last 7 years of drought >> led to the cancellation of the salmon fishing season last year. >> >> You should hear some of the invective that I used to hear aimed at >> "the f-ing vegetarians" along the docks I frequent in half moon bay. >> That I used to hear, anyway, The docks are eerily silent, the workers >> at other jobs, the boats not going out for anything except crab and >> squid. >> >> How smart is that? The California water table is a disaster, too. I >> vastly prefer salmon to almonds personally.... >> >> I guess a meta point is easily gathering tactical data is one thing, >> sharing it sanely another, deciding on how to use it strategically, >> another. >> >> -- >> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > nnag...@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >
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