States like NY State OPWDD have specific rules and do not allow 13D after a multi fatal fire in Wells NY in 2009.
Was NOT a fire sprinkler issue but steps were taken to step up existing and future group homes in NY State. https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/grand-jury-report-wells-group-home-fire-presents-steps-nys-can-take-prevent-similar Dominick Kasmauskas Legislative Consultant American Fire Sprinkler Association (AFSA) 518.937.4790 Kingsport, TN www.FireSprinkler.org On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 18:05 <[email protected]> wrote: > Re: *NFPA 101 2018 Edition -* > > > > 32.2.1.1.1 Residential Board and Care – *Small Facilities* - limited to > not more than sixteen (16) residents. > > > > 32.2.3.5.3.2 – Small Residential Board and Care Facilities can have an > NFPA 13D system with the limitations that all habitable areas are > sprinklered and if there are over eight (8) residents the water supply must > be as for two-family dwellings plus some attic issues. > > > > No emergency power requirements. > > > > > > 32.3.1.1.1 Residential Board and Care – *Large Facilities* - more than > sixteen (16) residents. > > > > 32.3.3.5.1 requires “full blown” NFPA 13 systems. > > > > Fire Pump as per NFPA 20 which only requires emergency power if a > high-rise or power is not considered reliable. > > > > > > Re: *IBC 2021 Edition -* > > > > Deciding the occupancy classification is much more complicated… > > 1 – 5 occupants - > R-3 NFPA 13D (903.2.8.1) > > 6 – 16 occupants - R-4, Condition 1 > NFPA 13D (903.2.8.2) > > R-4, Condition 2 NFPA 13R (903.2.8.3) > > More than 16 occupants - I-1, Condition > 1 NFPA 13R (903.2.6 Exception #1) > > > I-1, Condition 2 NFPA 13R (903.2.6 Exception #1) > > > > Use Conditions depend on the evacuation capability of the occupants which > is way out of a sprinkler designer’s wheelhouse. > > > > Someone with knowledge of the facility needs to determine the Occupancy > Classification. A four-bedroom house converted to a Group Home with two > occupants per bedroom is very likely to be a Group R-4, Condition 2 > occupancy which will require an NFPA 14R system with a UL Listed Fire Pump > and an electrical supply that meets the requirements of NFPA 20. > > > > > > David L. Miller, P.E. > > *Engineered Fire Protection, **LLC* > > 11920 Richcroft Avenue > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/11920+Richcroft+Avenue+Baton+Rouge,+Louisiana+70814?entry=gmail&source=g> > > Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70814 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/11920+Richcroft+Avenue+Baton+Rouge,+Louisiana+70814?entry=gmail&source=g> > > 225-273-5040 > > > > *From:* Mike Stewart <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2025 4:19 PM > *To:* Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers < > [email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: 13D generator requirements > > > > From my experience Group homes should not fall under 13D. At the very > least they are a 13R hazard. Even if they are in a standard home. > > > > Is there no engineer of record on this project? And why would a fire > sprinkler designer be worried about a back up power source? > > > > Is there a permanent back up generator on site? If so did the salesperson > who bid the project not exclude a transfer switch (being that it’s only a > 13R system)? > > > > I have so many questions about this. > > > > Mike Stewart > > Dog Walker > > > > On Jan 15, 2025, at 8:44 AM, Urso, Paul <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > I would assume if it is a state funded group home that a generator will be > installed. > > It is not code for the sprinkler system itself. > > > > > > Paul J. Urso > > Designer/Engineering Coordinator > > 9 Sullivan Road Holyoke, MA 01040 > <https://www.google.com/maps/search/9+Sullivan+Road+Holyoke,+MA+01040?entry=gmail&source=g> > > M: 860-883-6282 E: [email protected] > > > > > > > > <Outlook-qzwuc4tu.png> > > > > > > © 2023 Everon. All rights reserved. The information contained in this > transmission is confidential and/or may contain attorney-client privileged > communications intended for the use of the individual or entity named > above. If the reader of this electronic message is not the intended > recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. Everon and its parent, > affiliates, and subsidiaries reserve the right to monitor communications > handled by its data communications systems to help ensure compliance with > Everon's policies, confidentiality obligations, and applicable laws. > Licenses held under Everon available at www.everonsolutions.com > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 15, 2025 7:45 AM > *To:* Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] 13D generator requirements > > > > I am working on a group home, which by all of the Code analysis, requires > a standard 13D system. They propose to install a pump and tank system. > Would a back up power supply be required for this? I have never been asked > about it but can’t find much that addresses it. > > > > Todd G Williams, PE > > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > > Stonington, CT > > 860-535-2080 (ofc) > > 860-554-7054 (fax) > > 860-608-4559 (cell) > > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > Virus-free.www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> > <#m_7131047715055378835_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > _________________________________________________________ > SprinklerForum mailing list: > https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected]
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