[Sprinklerforum] Re: Standpipe Calculations

Thu, 04 Apr 2024 10:32:42 -0700

In my opinion, Steve and Ken are correct. This language was written this way for the reasons Steve stated.  I was personally at the technical committee meetings and heard the discussions on this topic. 

The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official position of the AFSA, and/or NFPA or its technical committees.AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such.

John

John August Denhardt, P.E.
Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services
American Fire Sprinkler Association 
301-343-1457

On Apr 4, 2024, at 13:24, Steve Leyton <[email protected]> wrote:



It’s the committee’s intent that the 1,000 gpm threshold is applicable only to buildings sprinklered per NFPA 13.   There have been numerous fires in 13R-protected buildings where the structure became involved, many of which were roof burn-offs.   Fire service is acutely aware of this nationwide, and any member of the residential sprinkler committee will affirm that every cycle, there is at least one but usually multiple inputs that propose to add sprinklers in attics if not all combustible concealed spaces.   So the language in 14 is based on fire incident reporting and other empirical data that inform us that it’s not prudent to limit hose stream capacity in 13R-protected buildings, so than an added measure (one additional attack stream) of hydraulic capability is backed into the standpipe system.

 

 

The foregoing is my opinion only and does not represent NFPA or the NFPA 14 Technical Committee, nor intended to serve as an interpretation of the standard.

 

Protection Design and Consulting

Steve Leyton, President

T  |  619.255.8964 x 102  |  www.protectiondesign.com
2851 Camino Del Rio South  |  Suite 210  |  San Diego, CA  92108
Fire Protection System Design | Consulting | Planning | Training

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: Ken Wagoner <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2024 10:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Standpipe Calculations

 

I disagree, Jose.

I'm not terribly confused by the omission of a direct reference to 13R in that section.  As the text reads "...for buildings that are not sprinklered throughout in accordance with NFPA 13."

Wouldn't you agree that 13R is other than NFPA 13?

sincerely,

Ken Wagoner, SET
Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235
Phone: (760) 745-6181
Visit the website

 

On 4/4/2024 10:28 AM, Jose Anibal Castillo wrote:

It appears there's a conflict in understanding, as section 10.6.1.1.6 outlines a requirement for a flow rate of 1,250 gallons per minute (gpm) for buildings lacking sprinkler coverage, in line with NFPA 13 standards. Yet, 10.6.1.1.6 omits any mention of NFPA 13R, leading to confusion about the necessity of meeting the 1,250 gpm requirement in scenarios where NFPA 13 standards might not be mandated by the building code but NFPA 13R. Furthermore, NFPA 14 does not discuss provisions for buildings with partial sprinkler protection according to NFPA 13R.

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:07 AM John Denhardt <[email protected]> wrote:

Correct - for standpipe calculations purposes, buildings protected with NFPA 13R systems do not meet the requirements to limit the flow to 1,250 GPM

 

10.6.1.1.6 in NFPA 14 - 2024

 

John August Denhardt, P.E.

Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services

American Fire Sprinkler Association 

301-343-1457



On Apr 3, 2024, at 09:49, Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> wrote:



13R buildings are not considered to be fully sprinklered. 

 




On Apr 3, 2024 at 9:45 AM, <Shawn Foor> wrote:

Why would you do 1250 if it’s a fully sprinklered building?  

Shawn Foor, SET

 

FOOR DESIGN, LLC

10208 E 98TH ST

TULSA, OK 74133

P:918-237-1400

 

 

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 08:43 <[email protected]> wrote:

Asking this on behalf of Rowe Sprinkler Systems (Temporally Un-Retired)

 

We have a 4-story modular apartment building sprinklered in accordance with NFPA 13R with allowed exceptions, with 4 standpipes. The standpipes are connected at the 1st floor level. One each at the ends of the L shaped building and two at the approximate mid-point on either side of a 2-hour separation wall with self-closing, rated doors in the corridor.

The question is for purposes of calculating the standpipe can these be treated as two separate buildings? For example, 250 gpm at the far end of the 4th floor, 250 gpm at the far end of the 3rd floor and 250 gpm at the at the connecting point of the middle standpipe, for a total of 750 gpm.

Or do we have to calculate the additional standpipes up to 1250 gpm. Available water is the issue.

 

 

Richard L. Mote CET

Rimrock Design Services, LLC

Middleburg, PA 17842

Mobile 570-541-2685

EMAIL [email protected]

WEB: www.rimrockdesignservicesllc.com

 


_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

_________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]


_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]


_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]



--

 

José Anibal Castillo M.S. (FP UMD)

Ingeniero Electromecánico

Especialista en Sistemas Contra Incendio

Cel:+(507) 6349.6217



 
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

 




_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to