Micah,
I understand your project will be reviewed based on the language in the 2029 edition of NFPA 13. However, section 1.5 Equivalency allows you to use alternate arrangements with technical documentation submitted to the AHJ. What better way to show the level of safety is not being lowered, than to share the language from the next edition of the standard? Yes, the letter of the law is important, but so is the intent. We know what we know when we know it and the arrangement of sprinklers or allowable modifiers in design applications that will exist in the next edition provide clarity and more so, in this case, a literal interpretation of this section, from the entire balloted committee. I would encourage you to adopt Mr. Denhardt’s advice and share it with your AHJ. This is (of course) just my personal opinion and not intended to sound condescending in any way Best regards, Bob <https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1> Bob Caputo, CFPS President American Fire Sprinkler Association c: 760-908-7753 p: 214-349-5965 ext124 w: <http://firesprinkler.org/> firesprinkler.org <https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org/> <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-/> <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg/> Treat Your Apprentices Like VIPs! AFSA’s Virtual Instruction Program (VIP) for Apprentices is training that comes straight from our expert instructors. They lead the way to ensure your men and women are trained, letting you focus on OJT. Click <https://www.firesprinkler.org/sprinkler-apprentice-training/> here to learn more and enroll From: Micah Davis <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 7:09 AM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: EH 11k & High Temp RA reduction Thank you, John. That is MUCH clearer. Unfortunately, the project in question is under the 2019 edition which leaves us with the uncertain language. Your feedback helps me with my next steps, though. Thank you, Micah Davis (931) 242-1299 On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 12:40 AM John Denhardt <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: For the 2025 edition of NFPA 13, the proposed language is below: Second Revision number 1084 19.2.3.2.7 Extra Hazard Occupancies. 19.2.3.2.7.1 For extra hazard occupancies with ceilings not exceeding 30 ft (9.1 m) in height, the system area of sprinkler operation shall be permitted to be reduced by 25 percent without revising the density, but not to less than 2000 ft2 (185 m2). where one of the following conditions occurs: (1) High-temperature sprinklers are used. (2) K-11.2 (160) or larger sprinklers are used. 19.2.3.2.7.2 The 25 percent reduction permitted by 19.2.3.2.7.1 shall only be permitted to applied once. This language is pretty clear to me. The technical committee statement for this second revision is telling: The current structure for the 25% reduction is unclear that the reduction can only be taken once with either high-temperature sprinklers or large orifice sprinklers. This revision makes the intent of the section clearer and will clarify the application of the requirements for multiple adjustments. Based on the fire testing data available at this time, the ceiling heights have been limited to 30 feet in height for taking the reduction. While this language looks like it will make it into the 2025 edition of NFPA 13, it still is subject to change until the Standards Council approves the release of this document around September 2024. The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official position of the AFSA, and/or NFPA or its technical committees.AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such. Thanks, John John August Denhardt, PE Vice President, Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler Association m: p: 301-343-1457 214-349-5965 ext 121 w: <http://firesprinkler.org/> firesprinkler.org Treat Your Apprentices Like VIPs! AFSA’s Virtual Instruction Program (VIP) for Apprentices is training that comes straight from our expert instructors. They lead the way to ensure your men and women are trained, letting you focus on OJT. Click <https://www.firesprinkler.org/sprinkler-apprentice-training/> here to learn more and enroll. On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 3:16 PM John Denhardt <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: For this, high temperature or 11.2K is allowed, not both. I’m currently on a plane but I will quote you the reference later today. Either or, not both. John John August Denhardt, P.E. Vice-President Engineering and Technical Services American Fire Sprinkler Association 301-343-1457 On Mar 18, 2024, at 15:03, Mike Morey <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: I believe the intent was always that the K11.2 reduction was an alternative to high temp heads and not intended to allow both but it was never spelled out (other than that omission perhaps). The revisions to the next edition are significant, but this item is consolidated into one that says you can take 25% reduction to no less than 2000 for one or the other. Mike Morey CFPS 3229 • NICET S.E.T. 123677 Project Manager • Fire Protection Group Shambaugh & Son, LP an EMCOR Company 7614 Opportunity Drive • Fort Wayne, IN • 46825 direct 260.487.7824 / cell 260.417.0625 / fax 260.487.7991 email <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] <image001.png> From: Micah Davis <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 2:51 PM To: SprinklerForum <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: [Sprinklerforum] EH 11k & High Temp RA reduction Hey everyone! I need some help with the application of the remote area adjustment provisions in Chapter 19 (2019) of NFPA 13. 19. 3. 3. 2. 8 addresses multiple adjustments but, interestingly, omits 19. 3. 3. 2. 7 in the list. Should I interpret ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart This Message Is From an Untrusted Sender You have not previously corresponded with this sender. ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd Hey everyone! I need some help with the application of the remote area adjustment provisions in Chapter 19 (2019) of NFPA 13. 19.3.3.2.8 addresses multiple adjustments but, interestingly, omits 19.3.3.2.7 in the list. Should I interpret this to mean that no other adjustments for EH design areas can be applied if the 11.2k or larger reduction is used? Thank you, Micah Davis Ferguson Fire Design 931-242-1299 This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. 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