Jason wrote: > Hi Francis, sorry about the name mispelling... > > > > Please let the producer of Mesosilver respond: > > I waited over a week after the initial inquiries, imagining, erroneously it > seems, that you'd jump in. > > > > Far be it for me to jump to support Mesosilver, as I don't agree with > > their marketing > > > strategy that includes bending and twisting the truth. > > > > Would you please tell what truth you think we have bent? > > Let me give you one example, of about five that I've documented, this one > you've made in your last email: > > > > > The so called scientific testing done in Petri dishes are scientifically > > flawed. > > The scientific study is not flawed. That is one example of the way your > words twist the truth. The scientific experiments are DESIGNED to test the > DIRECT killing power of silver. The are not DESIGNED to replicate real > world conditions. You are not careful with your qualifications. The truth > is that if the studies are APPLIED to real world conditions, the RESULTS > would not be comparible. You're just lucky that the one DESIGNED to test > real world applications are not publically available.
Killing power of ionic silver in a Petri dish may be interesting but it has nothing what so ever to do with how it will behave inside the human body. All such studies fail to ever mention that fact, and in fact leave the reader with the false impression that it would work just as well inside the body. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If the studies were intended to be an honest representation of how ionic silver can kill pathogens in the body, the environment of the Petri dish would have to simulate conditions in the body. Without the chloride being present their in the test environment, the test is scientifically flawed and misleading in the extreme. > There is no scientific flaw. A scientific flaw is where you design an > experiment that has fundamental errors in execution, measurement, theory, or > doesn't account for key variables within the context of the study. > > > > > If ionic silver were able to exist in the bloodstream it would seem that > one > > would be able to ingest ionic silver, draw a blood sample and measure the > > ionic silver concentration found in the blood using an Ion Selective > > Electrode (ISE). > > > > So why do all such measurements come up zero? > > > > We challenge anyone to find ionic silver in the blood after ingesting > ionic > > silver. > > > > Funny thing is, Francis, I haven't heard anyone claiming that silver ions > last in the bloodstream in a long time. I'm actually far more interested in > the lymphatic system, of late. And how would you suppose that silver ions that have been ingested are able to get into the lymphatic system without first entering the bloodstream? > > > 10% of the silver content is in the form of particles which survive in the > > bloodstream to kill pathogens. > > Which would mean that your product is at least 80% more effective than the > ones that I use. That's a mighty high claim, one that I feel you could > easily prove -- if it were true -- with basic and safe sore throat studies. > You'll find that it is not true. We state that the ability of a colloid to interact with it's environment is predicated on particle surface area. Surface area equals effectiveness for a colloid. Prof. Ron Gibbs knew that when I worked him and he put that in his booklet that we give away in electronic form on the silver-colloids.com website. We show that Mesosilver has 40 to 600 greater particle surface area than the ionic products on the market. > Since I have viewed data showing that a highly ionic silver injected into > the bloodstream reduces Hep C loads by about 85% in a three week period of > time, show me that Mesosilver injected into the bloodstream reduces it, in, > what? A few hours? Two days? Tetrasil did studues, and they weren't even > selling a product at the time. If you have studies that show such results, please present them. Interestingly, one company that sells both an ionic product which they produce and Mesosilver will recommend Mesosilver for Hep C. Why do think they would do such a thing? > On your website, you state that ionic silver doesn't work topically... > Again, a twisting of the truth, or have you not reviewed Dr. Bart Flick's > work with silver oxide? What we state is that ionic silver applied topically will form a thin coating of silver oxide when the water evaporates. That is a true statement. We also state the Mesosilver with form a thin coating of metallic silver particles when the water evaporates. That is a true statement. So where is the twisted truth? But speaking of twisting the truth, why do producers of ionic solutions that are typically 90% ionic silver label their products as "colloidal silver". If they were being truthful, the product would be labeled as an "ionic silver solution" which it technically is. The truth is that a silver solution whose silver content is predominantly ionic silver should not be labeled as "colloidal silver". The FTC would call that product mislabeled. Perhaps a petition to the FTC would cause the producers who are mislabeling their products to be more honest in their product labeling. In truth, the only products that should legally be labeled as "colloidal silver" would those whose silver content is predominantly nanometer sized silver particles. > Anyone who takes some time to research how to use ionic silver topically > understands that you don't allow the solution to evaporate. But rather than > state the truth, you twist it, ignoring details and slanting your > information, which is misleading your customer base for your own personal > ends. > Your product is now standing on its own, don't you think its time to back > down on your "is not" attack based marketing campaign? I figure you have > enough market penetration now to perhaps focus some energy on studies, and > simply state the benefits of a particulate silver based on your > understanding and data. Everyday we get customer calls from folks who thank us for revealing the truth about ionic silver solutions masquerading as "colloidal silver". The buying public wants to know the truth even while ionic silver producers want to obfuscate and present misleading stories of Petri dish tests. > At least understand that statements like particle silver cannot cause > argyria, which is blatantly not true according to medical history, don't > make you look very good among those educated in silver applications. > > Don't you think that just maybe, stating something like: "Our particles are > too small to cause argyria, even at high concentrations?" would be more > accurate, and lend credence to your more than capable logical capacity? Mesosilver does not cause argyria. I challenge anyone to present evidence that proves otherwise. > I "talk" to alot of your customers, they are very pleased with your product, > and I have never had any reason to discourage them from use, or even > recommend that they utilize a different product. However, when they start > asking questions, I feel it is my obligation to send them to documented > sources showing the truth, and then I spend way too much time qualifying and > clarifying what HAS been scientifically and medically demonstrated, and what > HAS NOT. This should be your job, not mine; I'm not getting paid. > > I'm certain many of these customers have not appreciated being misled, even > if it is only a subtle twist of the truth. > > Furthermore, I think you ought to reign in that affiliate program one of > your suppliers has going. I know it is good for sales, but some of them > have no business selling your product saying the things that they do. > There's more at stake than Mesosilver sales. Most companies with any > ethical sense have guidelines for their public relations for those marketing > their products. > As always, Best Regards, > > Jason > > > For those who missed it, here is more information on ionic silver: > > http://www.purestcolloids.com/ionic.htm > > > > For those who think ionic silver solutions should be called "colloidal > > silver": > > http://www.purestcolloids.com/notcs.htm > > > > For future reference, my name is not spelled Frances. > > > > Francis(Frank) Key > > PurestColloids.com > > > > Andy: > > > > Far be it for me to jump to support Mesosilver, as I don't agree with > their > > marketing strategy that includes bending and twisting the truth. > > > > However, Brooks Bradley, in the not-too-distant past, commented that their > > group evaluated quite a few colloidal silvers, and found the two best > brands > > to be Natural Immunogenics & Mesosilver. Kind of ironic, all things > > considered. He further commented that they could not tell the difference > > between the effectiveness of the two. > > > > Brooks was not clear if their testing was against conditions that required > > that the silver be adsorbed through the stomach or not, although I would > > certainly be interested in knowing. > > > > I don't remember Frances ever making the claim that an ion is larger than > a > > particle, al contrar: > > > > http://www.silvermedicine.org/attributesofsilverparticlesandsolutions.html > > > > You'll note that Frances clearly states that one silver atom has a radius > of > > 0.144 nanometers, and that a silver ion has a radius of about .28 > > nanometers. > > > > He now states that Mesosilver has particles measuring .65 nanometers in > > diameter, although previoiusly he claimed Mesosilver had particles > measuring > > 1.4 nanometers. At any rate, either measurement is not a claim that the > > particles are smaller than ions, as this is not physically possible ( to > my > > knowledge, anyway ). > > > > Frances Key cannot be correct in all of his claims, just as the ionic > > supporters, when it comes to silver particles, cannot be correct in all > > claims. If one was correct over the other, there would be about an 80% > > difference in effectiveness between the two different classes of products, > > and this just isn't true. > > > > I find silver particles just as fascinating as silver ions. My > > understanding on the silver colloid is as follows: > > > > Clusters of atoms organize to form a net negative charge ( zeta > potential ). > > > > Apparently, there is something being overlooked, at least in the > comparison > > of effectiveness between silver ions and a silver colloid. > > > > I prefer a highly ionic solution over a highly particulate one because the > > direct action of silver ions against pathogens and with human cells has > been > > scientifically and conclusively demonstrated. The silver particles have > > less "killing power", although they are more stable. > > > > I don't buy the fact that ionic silver is ineffective in the body, because > > it is contrary to my personal experience. > > > > It would be nice to understand why a quality silver colloid and a quality > > ionic silver are equally effective, if indeed they are. The obvious > answer > > is that they are both isolated silver products. I'm sure if we search > hard > > we could find a complicated one, and this might be revealing. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Jason > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:51 PM > > Subject: Re: CS>Anthrax Comment - mesosilver > > > > > > Hi Charles, > > > > I guess I get confused by the nomenclature. This is my understanding: > > > > Ionic = Single silver atoms with a charge of +1. > > Particulate = Several silver atoms clumped together with a charge of > less > > than +1. > > Colloid = Anything that is small enough to stay in solution without > > falling out of suspension. Including molecules that contain other atoms. > > > > Some people claim that smaller is better because there is more surface > > area exposed and that ions work best. Others claim that ions combine with > > other atoms and form bad molecules and that silver particles work best. > I'm > > thinking that either way, the exposed surface area is going to combine > with > > something and form a compound. The exposed surface area is what is > supposed > > to kill the pathogens isn't it? > > > > Anyhow, unless anyone can explain it better, Mesosilver looks like a > bunch > > of bad marketing for overcooked silver and nothing else. > > > > Just a brain fart, > > Andy > > > > From: Charles Sutton > > Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:34:09 > > > > Reads like the stuff I make. 24ppm by PWT and from the list (by now at > > least a thousand posts) it is part colloid and part ionic. The ionic can > > penetrate cells, and the colloid kills pathogens and other bugs. Where am > I > > wrong??? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > > > Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org > > > > To post, address your message to: [email protected] > > > > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 4:28 PM Subject: silver-digest Digest V103 #127
