The data belongs to the customer but the supplier has approval to use that 
data. For operational metrics. 

What I suggested was to make that into a product instead of just a stupid sla 
operational report. 

Jai ho

> On 19 Oct 2016, at 06:51, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> If that data is their customers’ – it is NOT theirs to play with.
> 
> And any improvements and automation in such data can only be delivered right 
> back to their customer and nobody else, there’s enough NDAs around for that 
> plus serious penalties for when they try to leverage a resource they have 
> available in one team for another team.  TCS found that out the hard way in 
> that Kaiser Permanente case where a former member on their team for that 
> client continued to use his (still active and not shut down as their famed 
> process orientedness should have made them do) kp.com login credentials to 
> access tech support manuals on behalf of another client that he was not 
> licensed for.  And then shared that credential across several other teams, 
> including those that developed a competitor to that very software.  [add 
> “allegedly” to taste for all this, these are the allegations made by the 
> plaintiff against TCS anyway].
> 
> If there’s some software they make that they sell to customers, they would 
> have to be dumb indeed not to leverage the hilt out of any and every bit of 
> analytics and telemetry they get their hands on, but I’m the last person to 
> accuse more than one player in the Indian software industry of intelligence.
> 
> --srs
> 
> On 19/10/16, 11:06 AM, "silklist on behalf of Bhaskar Dasgupta" 
> <[email protected] on behalf of 
> [email protected]> wrote:
> 
>    one of the examples I had asked to be funded was to leverage their data. 
> this company manages banking processes. what i wanted was to tie up with ISI 
> (not that one) and hire a small skunk work of data scientists and a data 
> design / visualisation centre. And then wanted to do what rolls royce have 
> done with their trent engines - they make a stupendous amount of money by 
> monitoring their engines on a real time basis in flight and saving airlines 
> shed loads of dosh. So i would’ve provided a set of tools, constantly 
> evolving, to the heads of operations on their process flows, heads of sales 
> on sales analytics, heads of product design on competitive features, and so 
> on and so forth. And once I have sufficient coverage, I can setup a banking 
> product market place. World Domination! result? god no, we cant pay these 
> phd’s that much! no? then you will lose them to american firms who can and 
> will. but that will cause the pay scales to be fucked up internally. ok, lets 
> spin off this firm. we don’t do spinoffs. why? 100% owned subsidiaries are 
> good and actually you can IPO it as their multiples will be better. Oh! that 
> decision is above my pay grade (this is the president of the division!) you 
> can fuck off. /facepalm. 
> 
>    forget about creating new products, buggers don’t even leverage what they 
> have! they are sitting on a fucking gold mine of rivers of data (if you don’t 
> mind me mangling metaphors) and are happy to sit there and fish for minnows 
> or get paid lowly for tending the sodding river bank. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2016, at 06:06, Suresh Ramasubramanian <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> IT companies buying product companies in a desperate bid to innovate .. let 
>> us just say that I’ve seen a lot of that happen at a previous workplace.
>> 
>> The usual end result is that the founders and key employees quit in disgust 
>> after a while and those that are left are gradually absorbed into the 
>> company doing something totally different than what they set out to do.  
>> 
>> And meanwhile the product itself is killed off immediately, or maybe dies a 
>> slow and lingering death with a few legacy customers left behind and 
>> practically zero further development.
>> 
>> Big companies that don’t have DNA beyond being pushers of software that most 
>> if not all users have a visceral hatred for, and/or bloated services 
>> contracts, are absolutely not going to infuse any magical fresh DNA into 
>> them by acquiring successful product companies
>> 
>> The prospect of such foreign DNA taking root in the company is far less than 
>> in the case of an organ transplant – the sort you get in mad scientist 
>> movies where a scientist transplants human dna / tissue / whatever into an 
>> ape and suddenly ends up with a super intelligent planet of the apes or 
>> Gorilla Grodd variety animal.
>> 
>> Mohandas Pai is a smug and opinionated twit but he got one thing right 
>> though. The software industry didn’t die – it will survive and it will 
>> probably hang on, but the traditional indian (or even foreign) services 
>> model is long dead in favour of automation.  The only things that won’t be 
>> automated to a large extent are higher up the value chain than such 
>> companies generally play around at.   And the hanging on will be the way a 
>> really old and sick man keeps hanging on – perpetually in the chasm between 
>> Allopathy and Tirupathi.
>> 
>> In other words, the days of 15% raises are dead and gone, companies 
>> outsourcing basic bargain basement sysadmin and datacentre work will 
>> outsource far less after automating the hell out of everything they can, 
>> testing will be automated.
>> 
>> Of all the cash cows out there, telemarketing and support still needs humans 
>> to a larger extent and will hang on but higher up the value chain – because 
>> a lot of it has moved to social media, marketing rules in this space have 
>> tightened etc.  
>> 
>> And even that is going way down after all the tech support scams in India 
>> that flourish tarring even the legit players with the same brush, with at 
>> least some of the legit players looking wistfully at the “upsell” angle 
>> that, if pushed a few hairs farther down the line, becomes those scams where 
>> someone claims to be “tech support” for your OS or device manufacturer and 
>> cons you into paying for a $50 a month perpetual contract.
>> 
>> --srs
>> 
>> On 19/10/16, 10:15 AM, "silklist on behalf of Deepak Shenoy" 
>> <[email protected] on behalf of 
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>   Apologies for the plug but I wrote a piece a year back:
>>   http://capitalmind.in/2015/01/the-inflexion-point-
>>   for-the-it-service-industry-long/
>> 
>>   So my point is that the problem isn't with IT companies - they will survive
>>   as IBM and HP etc have, and perhaps grow in single digit percentages and
>>   generally get a lot lower price to earnings multiples. They do stuff no one
>>   currently wants to do and overhauling a system to use stuff that other
>>   smart people want to use is too expensive. (Like COBOL - it may be outdated
>>   and all that but it still forms the basis for an irrationally large part of
>>   banking) This work will continue until you have removed the very need for
>>   the basis that the older software has been required, so there will always
>>   be business for the Infy/TCS/Cognizant types from this kind of maintenance
>>   work.
>> 
>>   But things can change very fast. 10 years ago I couldn't imagine that BigCo
>>   would be able to manage something like 5000 servers using less than 5
>>   people including bringing more up when required, at run time, with complete
>>   reporting/control available even on a mobile phone app. It's possible now.
>>   It's routine now. And as more companies are discovering it is, the on-site
>>   and off-site infrastructure work that was handled by the IT cos has seen
>>   dwindling business. SAP now offers a cloud based pre-setup solution, where
>>   you need none of the server infrastructure - only the initialization pieces
>>   which the IT cos still do; but at some point SAP will create modules that
>>   are one-click installs for the kind of industry you are in.
>> 
>>   Automation isn't robotics - you don't need machine learning or AI for most
>>   of the work required. For instance much of the testing work that is done
>>   tends to be checklist driven, and some of that has already been automated
>>   at multiple levels using tools. What these IT cos should have been doing is
>>   buying the product companies that build these tools, but they simply don't
>>   have the DNA. (I would even say buy minority stakes in them with a board
>>   seat) Their own products are absolutely crap; see the quality of the stuff
>>   TCS and Infy have built for say the MCA, versus teh quality of design that
>>   seems to be in teh new Modi camp (vidyutpravah.in for instance or such).
>> 
>>   I heard of a bigco - a friend works there - where an insurance company was
>>   being pitched by various vendors for a certain solution. The big Indian
>>   names went in with the powerpoint smoke and mirrors thing and offered
>>   things like 6 months to a year to finish with X headcount etc. A russian
>>   company with the founders as programmers pitched a working prototype that
>>   they said would take a couple more weeks to finalize and they'd get it live
>>   in amonth at a cost that was not even in the same area code forget the
>>   ballpark. They actually won the project and BigCo guys had multiple
>>   meetings to "create risk mitigation techniques" and such things. It's kinda
>>   funny.
>> 
>>   I think if IT cos react, they will get lean. If they get lean, many many
>>   people - and I'm speaking thousands in bangalore alone - will find out that
>>   their skills are drastically short of the real world requirement of jobs.
>>   This is the problem - not that the IT cos won't survive. IMHO.
>> 
>>   Deepak Shenoy
>>   Capital Mind: Financial Macro and Market Analytics
>>   http://capitalmind.in
>>   Twitter: @deepakshenoy
>> 
>>>   On 16 October 2016 at 15:34, Bhaskar Dasgupta <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> i was interviewing for one of the IT corporates some time back for their
>>> COO position and once i managed to dig a bit into their financials, i
>>> backed out. the majority of their revenue streams are from processing in
>>> advanced stuff, processing code, processing transactions, processing
>>> quality control. They do this very well. Very very well. standardise the
>>> process, six sigma the shit out of it, hire the great unwashed herd of
>>> graduates pouring out of the universities - retrain them to be great
>>> processors and great business model. But this kind of model is very
>>> susceptible to dis-intermediation from further advances in technology. When
>>> I asked if can have some serious seed funding to develop products rather
>>> than just provide services, there was a bit of a hoo ha. I think a product
>>> plus service model is the best option, create great products and then have
>>> a long tail in services and maintenance contracts. we have some of these
>>> products but not enough. not easy to develop products - the eco-system
>>> isn’t there yet.
>>> 
>>> so whilst i don’t think its the end of the road, but for example, every 2
>>> months I am in a conference where vendors pitch up talking about robotic
>>> process improvement or AI and how they are showing 20–50% reduction in warm
>>> bodies in agency/outsourced/offshored units. Where will these 20-50% of
>>> highly trained processors go when the infosys or TCS lets them go?
>>> Thankfully the economy is ginormous and we are well accustomed to poverty
>>> and pain and still have the joint / extended family to fall back upon. But
>>> for the IT industry? pain...
>>> 
>>> i agree with Srini, changing careers is not easy for us desi’s….(says the
>>> man who has made a career of changing careers, heh).
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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