I still think the concept is worth preserving with - I've come across a lot of people who want to get involved in the scene, are prepared to invest something, and will feel more motivated and excited about their involvement if they're something at stake.
From: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com [mailto:silicon-beach-austra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Williams Sent: Friday, 6 February 2009 4:45 PM To: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com Subject: [SiliconBeach] Re: question about startup funding in Australia Really an investor is buying to this round, plus any existing assets. Valuing these would be hard. Valuing them at their initial investment value wouldn't be proper. I would imagine it would fall afoul of a few ASIC rules. Even if it's somehow workable, then you're taking away a big risk element - I can invest at round 3 and reap the rewards of the previous rounds at no cost. Perhaps it can work, but I think that will be an issue. J On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Geoff McQueen - Hiive Systems <geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com<mailto:geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com>> wrote: Phil, Sounds reasonable; in my limited experience, I think this is called a recapitalisation. My only comment: make the price to play higher. Making it something closer to $2k means people will care more about their investment; $500 for the angel types (and possibly also $2K, or even $20K) is more like a donation. Geoff -----Original Message----- From: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com<mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com> [mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com<mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com>] On Behalf Of Phil Sim Sent: Friday, 6 February 2009 4:19 PM To: silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com<mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com> Subject: [SiliconBeach] Re: question about startup funding in Australia I think its key to keep it as simple as possible. This isn't my area of expertise, but I imagine that each year all investors would be given the opportunity to invest again and you just essentially add that number of shares each year. So when you start you start with the .2 per cent and you can maintain that holding by investing each year, if you don't your shares just get diluted. To be active, however, with the event/email list you need to have invested in the current round. I don't know about anyone else, but $500 a year to be involved in something like this would just be a no-brainer. Phil Sim Chief Executive Officer, MediaConnect Australia Pty Ltd www.mediaconnect.com.au<http://www.mediaconnect.com.au> phi...@mediaconnect.com.au<mailto:phi...@mediaconnect.com.au> Ph: +61 2 9894 6277 Fax: +61 2 8246 6383 Mobile: 0413889940 On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Jonathan Williams <william...@gmail.com<mailto:william...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Makes it complex - by investing are you investing in any returns for that > round, or for the lifetime of the programme? > J > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Geoff McQueen - Hiive Systems > <geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com<mailto:geoff.mcqu...@hiivesystems.com>> wrote: >> >> Phil, >> >> Quick question: since the idea is to have "rounds", would it really be a >> commitment to contribute $500 per half year for each of the 500 investors? >> >> If so, the share values themselves could probably be traded - if the group >> has a couple of decent exits to proper angel or series A or - God forbid - >> the businesses generate dividends without needing to have a specific >> liquidity event - which would result in the value of the shares going up. >> >> The trustholders/shareholders agreement or articles of association would >> require a capital raising every 6 months, which I don't see as an issue: >> however, if we don't have a liquid market to set the price for shares (which >> we shouldn't be aiming for: the idea of the network/connections/support >> stuff is that the investors would probably be pretty engaged and stable), >> when someone chooses to dip out or not pay up, how would you "buy out" their >> share? Surely it wouldn't be a sum of contributions, else people could vote >> with their feet if times were tough and realise a valuation greater than >> "book value"... >> >> These problems have solutions, and I've got a few ideas, but I was >> wondering if you had some comments to make about how this sort of thing >> would go over time since you've certainly already put a lot of thought into >> it... >> >> Geoff >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: >> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com<mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com> >> [mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com<mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com>] >> On Behalf Of Phil Sim >> Sent: Friday, 6 February 2009 3:21 PM >> To: >> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com<mailto:silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com> >> Subject: [SiliconBeach] Re: question about startup funding in Australia >> >> >> I think anyone would agree that the benefit of being a part of a >> scheme like this, would be the advice and mentoring you would get from >> some of the 500 'shareholders'' who all have an interest in helping >> you to succeed. Suddenly, you've got a crowd of people who you can go >> for advice, guidance, etc. A swathe of people who have been following >> you from word go who might then want to invest more as angels and a >> genuine path up to larger funding. Read the Y-combinator material and >> they go to great pains to say most of their companies dont need the >> money but they're doing it for the access to networks and guidance. >> >> After all, nobody REALLY needs money in Australia to do a start-up >> because you can go on the dole and just code until you've got >> something to show for it, but its taking that next step to >> commercialise, market it, make those important first hires that people >> need help with. >> >> This is how I would see it working: >> 500 shares at $500 each gives an annual fund of $25k. Aim to fund 20 >> startups in two batches six months apart. (2 x 10) Funding would be >> similiar to y-combinator model of $5k per founder. The event I >> previously proposed could be used in doing some of the selection >> process. The organisation would also try and get sponsorship >> agreements for free hosting, etc. further reduce costs. Again keeping >> to the Y-combinator model that would get the group up to 10 per cent. >> >> An email list like this would be used to keep the group up to date and >> for the startups to talk about their progress and ask for >> help/feedback. Nice and low maintenance. Virtual networking for the >> investors as well as the startups. >> >> The quality of the investors is important. I'd suggest an application >> process and that at least 100 powerful investors who are invited to >> join so as link the group to VC organisations, angel groups, political >> circles, and generally wealthy networks. >> >> After the first six months is up, startups that have done well could >> apply to receive one of the next batches as well. >> >> This is a concept I've been keen to get involved with for a long time. >> I even registered a domain virtualkapital.com<http://virtualkapital.com> a >> few years ago when I >> last got excited by the idea. Would be happy to donate that to the >> cause if people liked it. >> >> What this needs now is for some people to actually step forward and do >> something about it. If there is anyone that could do the >> legal/financial legwork to get up a structure that would work then I >> would be happy to use our upcoming media conference (feb 22 to 24) to >> launch this idea and get the publicity rolling and then to basically >> take the lead in marketing the organisation. Someone who would put >> some time into project managing it, would be useful as well... >> >> I sincerely think this would make a massive difference to our startup >> environment and provide a true path from seed through to VC funding. >> >> Phil Sim >> Chief Executive Officer, >> MediaConnect Australia Pty Ltd >> www.mediaconnect.com.au<http://www.mediaconnect.com.au> >> phi...@mediaconnect.com.au<mailto:phi...@mediaconnect.com.au> >> Ph: +61 2 9894 6277 >> Fax: +61 2 8246 6383Mobile: 0413889940 >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:30 AM, silky >> <michaelsli...@gmail.com<mailto:michaelsli...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Bart Jellema >> > <bart.jell...@tjoos.com<mailto:bart.jell...@tjoos.com>> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Have been following this thread for a while. Mick and David, some >> >> excellent input! Having been around the community for a while now I >> >> keep hearing this argument over an over that what Australia need is >> >> more access to funding. This is bugging me for a few reasons: >> >> >> >> - I feel that many use this as an excuse to justify their failure or >> >> much worse: Their failure to even try. >> >> - I get the feeling that some think "getting funding" = success, >> >> instead of the "creating a great product that solves someones issue" = >> >> success. >> >> - Sometimes I think people feel a sense of entitlement. >> >> - Many seem to me to have a skewed view of how hard/easy it is to get >> >> funding in the valley. (One of our friends in the valley spent >> >> countless coffees trying to get funding. After months they finally >> >> just bootstrapped it and sold to Salesforce after about 1.5 years.) >> >> >> >> Sure, some startups can only happen with funding, but in this day and >> >> age I don't quite understand why you would lose your focus and waste >> >> time on trying to get funding for a web startup if you can simply >> >> bootstrap it. Sure it takes sacrifice (Kim and I lived in my parents >> >> attic for 3 months to get tjoos off the ground) and it's a huge risk >> >> because in all likelihood you will fail. But how can you expect others >> >> to take that risk off you if you're not willing to take that risk >> >> yourself first? Once you get your venture off the ground and start to >> >> get some good traction you will find that there is plenty of money >> >> available in Australia to help you grow. >> >> >> >> Right now I meet many wantrepreneurs, hear about many great ideas, but >> >> see too little people cutting code and putting it on the road. I think >> >> it's true that one of Australia's problems is aversion to risk, but >> >> this doesn't only apply to the investment side. So I'd say: Take some >> >> risk, believe in what you do and just build it. If you're growing like >> >> crazy but can't grow as fast as you'd like because nobody wants to >> >> invest, then come bitching about it. >> > >> > Legitimate advice but nothing to do with the topic at hand - creating >> > a group to help fund people that *do* deserve it. Nobody wants to fund >> > people that don't. >> > >> > -- >> > noon silky >> > http://www.boxofgoodfeelings.com/ >> > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself: http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/browse_thread/thread/99938a0fbc691eeb To post to this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
