> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> If something like this already exists, please let me know. Otherwise,
> I
> plan to:
>
> Create "zfshistory" command, written in python. (open source, public,
> free)
On 25 apr 2010, at 20.12, Richard Elling wrote:
> On Apr 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>
>>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
>>>
>>> Next,
>>> mv /a/e /a/E
>>> ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
>>>
>>> ENOENT
On Apr 26, 2010, at 5:02 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:12 PM
>>
>>> E did exist. Inode 12345 existed, but it had a different name at the
>> time
>>
>> OK, I'll believe you.
>>
>> How about this?
>>
>>
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 2:12 PM
>
> > E did exist. Inode 12345 existed, but it had a different name at the
> time
>
> OK, I'll believe you.
>
> How about this?
>
> mv a/E/c a/c
> mv a/E a/c
> mv a/c a/E
The thin
On Apr 25, 2010, at 5:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
>>
>> Next,
>> mv /a/e /a/E
>> ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
>>
>> ENOENT?
>>
>> ls -l a/E/.snapshot/snapname/d.txt
>>
>> this
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 7:42 PM
>
> Next,
> mv /a/e /a/E
> ls -l a/e/.snapshot/snaptime
>
> ENOENT?
>
> ls -l a/E/.snapshot/snapname/d.txt
>
> this should be ENOENT because d.txt did not exist in a/E at snaptime
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Freddie Cash
>
> From the sounds of it, the .snapshot directory is just a pointer to the
> corresponding directory in the actual snapshot tree. The snapshots are
> not actually saved per-direc
> From: Ragnar Sundblad [mailto:ra...@csc.kth.se]
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:18 PM
>
> > To answer the question you linked to:
> > .shapshot/snapname.0/a/b/c/d.txt from the top of the filesystem
> > a/.snapshot/snapname.0/b/c/d.txt
> > a/e/.shapshot/snapname.0/c/d.txt
> > a/e/c/.snapshot/sn
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 10:43 AM
>
> > Nope. That discussion seems to be concluded now. And the netapp
> does not
> > have the problem that was suspected.
>
> I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of
>
On Apr 24, 2010, at 2:17 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
> On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
>
>> I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of the
>> problem
>> is what you continue to miss.
>
> Me too then, I think. Can you please enlighten us about the
> defini
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>
> On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
>
> On 24 apr 2010, at 09.18, Brandon High wrote:
> > To answer the question you linked to:
> > .shapshot/snapname.0/a/b/c/d.txt from the top of the filesystem
> > a/.snapshot/snapname.0/b/
On 24 apr 2010, at 16.43, Richard Elling wrote:
> I do not recall reaching that conclusion. I think the definition of the
> problem
> is what you continue to miss.
Me too then, I think. Can you please enlighten us about the
definition of the problem?
>> The .snapshot directories do precisely
On Apr 24, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
>> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>>
>>> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
>>> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> > From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> > boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
> >
> > Actually, I find this very surprising:
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
> As the thread unfolds, it appears, although netapp may sometimes have some
> problems with "mv" directories ... This is evidence that appears to be
> weakening ... Sometimes they do precisely what you would want them to do.
Richard and I
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> Actually, I find this very surprising:
> Question posted:
> http://lopsa.org/pipermail/tech/2010-April/004356.html
As the thread unfolds, it appears, although netapp may
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> One last try. If you change the "real" directory structure, how are
> those
> changes reflected in the "snapshot" directory structure?
>
> Consider:
> echo "whee" > /a/b/c/d.txt
> [snapshot]
> mv /a/b /a/B
>
> What do
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 04:49:30PM +0100, Darren J Moffat wrote:
> /foo is the filesystem
> /foo/bar is a directory in the filesystem
>
> cd /foo/bar/
> touch stuff
>
> [ you wait, time passes; a snapshot is taken ]
>
> At this point /foo/bar/.snapshot/.../stuff exists
>
> Now do this:
>
> rm
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:10:09PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:nicolas.willi...@oracle.com]
> >
> > POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
> > filesystem root directories.
>
> So? Tell it to Netapp. They don't seem to have any
Richard Elling wrote:
> IIRC, POSIX does not permit hard links to directories. Moving or renaming
> the directory structure gets disconnected from the original because these
> are relative relationships. Clearly, NetApp achieves this in some manner
> which is not constrained by POSIX -- a manner
On Apr 22, 2010, at 4:50 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> Repeating my previous question in another way...
>> So how do they handle "mv home/joeuser home/moeuser" ?
>> Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
>> To make this
On Thu, 22 Apr 2010, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
To move closer to RFE status ... I think the description would have to be
written in verbage pertaining to zfs which is more than I know. I can
describe how they each work, but I can't make it technical enough to be an
RFE for zfs.
Someone would a
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> Repeating my previous question in another way...
> So how do they handle "mv home/joeuser home/moeuser" ?
> Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
> To make this work in ZFS, does this require that the mv(1)
> command only
On 22/04/2010 00:14, Jason King wrote:
It still has the issue that the end user has to know where the root of
the filesystem is in the tree (assuming it's even accessible on the
system -- might not be for an NFS mount).
For CIFS ZFS provides the Volume Shadow Service (Previous Versions in
Wind
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Richard Elling
wrote:
> Repeating my previous question in another way...
> So how do they handle "mv home/joeuser home/moeuser" ?
> Does that mv delete all snapshots below home/joeuser?
If you wanted to go into home/joeuser/.snapshot , I think you'd have
to look
On Apr 21, 2010, at 7:27 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a
>> symlink
>> to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would "solve" the directory shuffle
>> problem.
>
> Not qu
> If you did the symlink .snapshot --> $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot, and somehow
> made
> that magically appear in every directory all the time, you would have
> this:
> /share/home/joeuser/foo/.snapshot/bestsnapever/home/joeuser/foo/bar
> /share/home/joeuser/.snapshot/bestsnapever/home/joeuser/foo/bar
>
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a
> symlink
> to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would "solve" the directory shuffle
> problem.
Not quite.
In Ontap, all you do is go into .snapshot, and select which
> From: Nicolas Williams [mailto:nicolas.willi...@oracle.com]
>
> POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
> filesystem root directories.
So? Tell it to Netapp. They don't seem to have any problem with it.
___
zfs-discuss
It still has the issue that the end user has to know where the root of
the filesystem is in the tree (assuming it's even accessible on the
system -- might not be for an NFS mount).
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Brandon High wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> wrote
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
> At present, the workaround I have for zfs is:
> ln -s .zfs/snapshot snapshot
> This makes the snapshot directory plainly visible to all NFS and CIFS users.
> Easy to find every time, easy to remember. Especially important for Mac
Nicolas Williams wrote:
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:03:39PM -0500, Jason King wrote:
ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
the
Richard Elling wrote:
So you are saying that the OnTap .snapshot directory is equivalent to a symlink
to $FSROOT/.zfs/snapshot? That would "solve" the directory shuffle problem.
Not quite. It's equivalent(ish) to:
cd "$MYDIR" && mkdir .snapshot && cd .snapshot
for s in "$FSROOT"/.zfs/snapsho
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 01:03:39PM -0500, Jason King wrote:
> ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
> on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
> being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
> the snapdir property ('
On Apr 21, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
What happens when you remove the directory?
>>>
>>> Same thing that happens when you remove the .zfs directory. You
>> can't.
>>
>> Are you sure I cannot rmdir on a NetApp?
ISTR POSIX also doesn't allow a number of features that can be turned
on with zfs (even ignoring the current issues that prevent ZFS from
being fully POSIX compliant today). I think an additional option for
the snapdir property ('directory' ?) that provides this behavior (with
suitable warnings ab
POSIX doesn't allow us to have special dot files/directories outside
filesystem root directories.
Nico
--
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> >> What happens when you remove the directory?
> >
> > Same thing that happens when you remove the .zfs directory. You
> can't.
>
> Are you sure I cannot rmdir on a NetApp? That seems like basic
> functionality to me.
>
> Or are you
On 21/04/2010 16:35, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
difficult
to k
On Apr 21, 2010, at 8:35 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
>>> wrote:
there's a file or something you want to rollback, it
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> > wrote:
> >> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
> difficult
> >> to know how far back up the t
> From: Brandon High [mailto:bh...@freaks.com]
>
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> wrote:
> > there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently
> difficult
> > to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct
> ".zfs"
> > subdirectory, and
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Tim Haley
>
> You can see it with ls:
> # ls -ld -% all /net/server/export/ws/timh/nvc
> drwxr-xr-x 9 timh staff 13 Apr 21 01:25
> /net/server/export/ws/timh/nvc/
> time
On Apr 20, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Brandon High wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
> wrote:
>> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
>> to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
>> subdirectory, and then y
On 04/21/10 08:45 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
the
.zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
the
command locally. It will not work fro
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:45:24AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
> > >
> > > You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
> > the
> > > .zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
> >
> From: Mark Shellenbaum [mailto:mark.shellenb...@oracle.com]
> >
> > You can create/destroy/rename snapshots via mkdir, rmdir, mv inside
> the
> > .zfs/snapshot directory, however, it will only work if you're running
> the
> > command locally. It will not work from a NFS client.
> >
>
> It will
On 04/21/10 03:24 AM, Darren J Moffat wrote:
On 21/04/2010 05:09, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you'v
On 21/04/2010 05:09, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you've been following this thread. Nobody said .zf
On 4/21/10 6:49 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
And you can
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Edward Ned Harvey
>
> > From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> > boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
> >
> > And you can even create, rename and des
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey
wrote:
> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
> to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
> subdirectory, and then you need to figure out the name of the snapshots
There is
> From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss-
> boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of Nicolas Williams
>
> The .zfs/snapshot directory is most certainly available over NFS.
I'm not sure you've been following this thread. Nobody said .zfs/snapshot
wasn't available over NFS. It
Nicolas Williams wrote:
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 04:28:02PM +, A Darren Dunham wrote:
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
"zfs list -t snapshot" lists in time order.
Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my "zfs send" scripts but it's not
relevant for the
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 04:28:02PM +, A Darren Dunham wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > > "zfs list -t snapshot" lists in time order.
> >
> > Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my "zfs send" scripts but it's not
> > relevant for the case at
On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 09:03:33AM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> > "zfs list -t snapshot" lists in time order.
>
> Good to know. I'll keep that in mind for my "zfs send" scripts but it's not
> relevant for the case at hand. Because "zfs list" isn't available on the
> NFS client, where the us
> From: Kyle McDonald [mailto:kmcdon...@egenera.com]
>
> I think I saw an ARC case go by recently for anew 'zfs diff' command. I
> think it allows you compare 2 snapshots, or maybe the live filesystem
> and a snapshot and see what's changed.
>
> It sounds really useful, Hopefully it will integrate
On 4/17/2010 9:03 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>
It would be cool to only list files which are different.
>>> Know of any way to do that?
>>>
>> cmp
>>
> Oh, no. Because cmp and diff require reading both files, it could take
> forever, especially if you have a lot of
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
> >
> > Um ... All the same time.
> > Even if I "stat" those directories ...
> > Access: Modify: and Change: are all useless...
>
> which is why you need to stat the destination :-)
Ahh. I see it now.
By stat'ing the destination instead
On Apr 16, 2010, at 5:33 PM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>>
>> There are some interesting design challenges here. For the general
>> case, you
>> can't rely on the snapshot name to be in time order, so you need to
>> sort by the
>> mtime of
> From: Richard Elling [mailto:richard.ell...@gmail.com]
>
> There are some interesting design challenges here. For the general
> case, you
> can't rely on the snapshot name to be in time order, so you need to
> sort by the
> mtime of the destination.
Actually ...
drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 20 Ma
On Apr 16, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Freddie Cash wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Richard Elling
> wrote:
> Or maybe you just setup your tracker.cfg and be happy?
>
> What's a "tracker.cfg", and how would it help ZFS users on non-Solaris
> systems? ;)
tracker is the gnome answer to spotli
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Richard Elling wrote:
> Or maybe you just setup your tracker.cfg and be happy?
>
What's a "tracker.cfg", and how would it help ZFS users on non-Solaris
systems? ;)
--
Freddie Cash
fjwc...@gmail.com
___
zfs-discuss mai
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 02:19:47PM -0700, Richard Elling wrote:
> On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
> > I've a ksh93 script that lists all the snapshotted versions of a file...
> > Works over NFS too.
> >
> > % zfshist /usr/bin/ls
> > History for /usr/bin/ls (/.zfs/snapshot/*/us
On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Nicolas Williams wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
>> If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
>> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
>> to know how far b
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Edward Ned Harvey wrote:
> If you've got nested zfs filesystems, and you're in some subdirectory where
> there's a file or something you want to rollback, it's presently difficult
> to know how far back up the tree you need to go, to find the correct ".zfs"
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