Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Harry Putnam
Blake writes: > I'd be careful about raidz unless you have either: > > 1 - automatic notification of failure set up using fmadm > > 2 - at least one hot spare Sorry to be so dense here but can you expand a little on what a `hot spare' is. Do you mean just a spare similar sized disk to use if on

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Blake
I'd be careful about raidz unless you have either: 1 - automatic notification of failure set up using fmadm 2 - at least one hot spare Because raidz is parity-based (it does some math-magic to give you redundancy), replacing a disk that's failed can take a very long time compared to mirror resil

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Harry Putnam
Richard Elling writes: >> With five disks, raidz1 becomes useful. > > +1 > also remember that you can add mirrors later. For best data availability, > start with 2 mirrored disks, each split in half. As your data requirements > grow, add mirrored halves. For diversity, make each side (half) of

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Harry Putnam
Bob Friesenhahn writes: > On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: >> I've created a zpool in raidz1 configuration with: >> >> zpool create zbk raidz1 c3d0 c4d0 c4d1 > > This is not a very useful configuration. With this number of disks, > it is best to use two of them to build a mirror, and

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Harry Putnam
Tomas Ögren writes: >> I was under the impression raidz1 would take something like 20%.. but >> this is more like 33.33%. >> >> So, is this to be expected or is something wrong here? > > Not a percentage at all.. raidz1 "takes" 1 disk. raidz2 takes 2 disks. > This is to be able to handle 1 vs 2

Re: [zfs-discuss] is 'zfs receive' atomic per snapshot?

2009-03-19 Thread Matthew Ahrens
José Gomes wrote: Can we assume that any snapshot listed by either 'zfs list -t snapshot' or 'ls .zfs/snapshot' and previously created with 'zfs receive' is complete and correct? Or is it possible for a 'zfs receive' command to fail (corrupt/truncated stream, sigpipe, etc...) and a corrupt or

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Richard Elling
Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: I've created a zpool in raidz1 configuration with: zpool create zbk raidz1 c3d0 c4d0 c4d1 This is not a very useful configuration. With this number of disks, it is best to use two of them to build a mirror, and save the othe

Re: [zfs-discuss] is 'zfs receive' atomic per snapshot?

2009-03-19 Thread Richard Elling
José Gomes wrote: Can we assume that any snapshot listed by either 'zfs list -t snapshot' or 'ls .zfs/snapshot' and previously created with 'zfs receive' is complete and correct? Or is it possible for a 'zfs receive' command to fail (corrupt/truncated stream, sigpipe, etc...) and a corrupt or

Re: [zfs-discuss] X4500 Thumper, config for boot disks?

2009-03-19 Thread Richard Elling
Neal Pollack wrote: Hi: What is the most common practice for allocating (choosing) the two disks used for the boot drives, in a zfs root install, for the mirrored rpool? The docs for thumper, and many blogs, always point at cfgadm slots 0 and 1, which are sata3/0 and sata/3/4, which most oft

Re: [zfs-discuss] rename(2), atomicity, crashes and fsync()

2009-03-19 Thread Peter Schuller
Uh, I should probably clarify some things (I was too quick to hit send): > IMO the fundamental problem is that the only way to achieve a write > barrier is fsync() (disregarding direct I/O etc). Again I would just > like an fbarrier() as I've mentioned on the list previously. It seems Of course i

[zfs-discuss] is 'zfs receive' atomic per snapshot?

2009-03-19 Thread José Gomes
Can we assume that any snapshot listed by either 'zfs list -t snapshot' or 'ls .zfs/snapshot' and previously created with 'zfs receive' is complete and correct? Or is it possible for a 'zfs receive' command to fail (corrupt/truncated stream, sigpipe, etc...) and a corrupt or incomplete snapshot to

Re: [zfs-discuss] AVS and ZFS demos - link broken?

2009-03-19 Thread Jim Dunham
James, The links to the Part 1 and Part 2 demos on this page (http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/Demos/ ) appear to be broken. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/Demos/AVS-ZFS-Demo-V1/ http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/avs/Demos/AVS-ZFS-Demo-V2/ They still work for me. What

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: I've created a zpool in raidz1 configuration with: zpool create zbk raidz1 c3d0 c4d0 c4d1 This is not a very useful configuration. With this number of disks, it is best to use two of them to build a mirror, and save the other disk for something el

Re: [zfs-discuss] rename(2), atomicity, crashes and fsync()

2009-03-19 Thread Peter Schuller
> fsync() is, indeed, expensive. Lots of calls to fsync() that are not > necessary for correct application operation EXCEPT as a workaround for > lame filesystem re-ordering are a sure way to kill performance. IMO the fundamental problem is that the only way to achieve a write barrier is fsync()

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Tomas Ögren
On 19 March, 2009 - Harry Putnam sent me these 1,4K bytes: > I'm finally getting close to the setup I wanted, after quite a bit of > experimentation and bugging these lists endlessly. > > So first, thanks for your tolerance and patience. > > My setup consists of 4 disks. One holds the OS (rpool

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Blake
This verifies my guess: http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide#RAID-Z_Configuration_Requirements_and_Recommendations On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Blake wrote: > IIRC, that's about right.  If you look at the zfs best practices wiki > (genunix.org I think?), th

Re: [zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Blake
IIRC, that's about right. If you look at the zfs best practices wiki (genunix.org I think?), there should be some space calculations linked in there somewhere. On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: > I'm finally getting close to the setup I wanted, after quite a bit of > experimen

[zfs-discuss] Size discrepancy (beyond expected amount?)

2009-03-19 Thread Harry Putnam
I'm finally getting close to the setup I wanted, after quite a bit of experimentation and bugging these lists endlessly. So first, thanks for your tolerance and patience. My setup consists of 4 disks. One holds the OS (rpool) and 3 more all the same model and brand, all 500gb. I've created a zp

Re: [zfs-discuss] X4500 Thumper, config for boot disks?

2009-03-19 Thread Cindy . Swearingen
Hi Neal, This example needs to be updated with a ZFS root pool. It could also be that I mapped the wrong boot disks in this example. You can name the root pool what ever you want, rpool, mpool, mypool. In these examples, I was using rpool for RAIDZ pool and mpool for mirrored pool, not knowing

[zfs-discuss] X4500 Thumper, config for boot disks?

2009-03-19 Thread Neal Pollack
Hi: What is the most common practice for allocating (choosing) the two disks used for the boot drives, in a zfs root install, for the mirrored rpool? The docs for thumper, and many blogs, always point at cfgadm slots 0 and 1, which are sata3/0 and sata/3/4, which most often map to c5t0d0 and c

Re: [zfs-discuss] rename(2), atomicity, crashes and fsync()

2009-03-19 Thread Miles Nordin
> "bf" == Bob Friesenhahn writes: bf> If ZFS does try to order its disk updates in cronological bf> order without prioritizing metadata updates over data, then bf> the risk is minimized. AIUI it doesn't exactly order them, just puts them into 5-second chunks. so it rolls the on-

Re: [zfs-discuss] rename(2), atomicity, crashes and fsync()

2009-03-19 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Miles Nordin wrote: And the guarantees ARE minimal---just: http://www.google.com/search?q=POSIX+%22crash+consistency%22 and you'll find even people against T'so's who want to change ext4 still agree POSIX is on T'so's side. Clearly I am guilty of inflated expectations.

Re: [zfs-discuss] Public ZFS API ?

2009-03-19 Thread Darren J Moffat
Ian Collins wrote: Darren J Moffat wrote: Ian Collins wrote: Cherry Shu wrote: Are any plans for an API that would allow ZFS commands including snapshot/rollback integrated with customer's application? libzfs.h? The API in there is Contracted Consolidation Private. Note that private doe