2009 surveys results

2010-01-08 Thread Pascal Robert
You can consult the 2009 surveys results in the wiki : Organization : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/E4Bf Invidivual : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/doBf Don't worry about the number of respondants, I know at least four Canadian organizations who didn't

RE: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-26 Thread Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D
=navy@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Tim Worman Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 20:42 To: Ken Foust Cc: webobjects Apple; Miguel Arroz Subject: Re: 2009 surveys results I think there are definitely great materials available to learn about WebObjects, WOLips, Wonder. Like Ken said, I think the

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread Don Lindsay
You are more than welcome to transfer them to a format better suited to reach the masses. They were created with Adobe Captivate, don't know if that makes any difference. They are essentially screen recordings, I did not use any interactive options within these tutorials that I remember.

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread Don Lindsay
Hello Chuck; http://web.me.com/pccdonl/ I think you mean. You are correct, I should not have cut and pasted. :) Don On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:42 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Don Lindsay wrote: I agree with Robert, I created several tutorials for WebObjects as well

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread David LeBer
On 2009-10-25, at 10:13 AM, Ramsey Lee Gurley wrote: On Oct 25, 2009, at 7:28 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: - "Chuck Hill" a écrit : On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Don Lindsay wrote: I agree with Robert, I created several tutorials for WebObjects as well as an installer for windows an

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread Ramsey Lee Gurley
On Oct 25, 2009, at 7:28 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: - "Chuck Hill" a écrit : On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Don Lindsay wrote: I agree with Robert, I created several tutorials for WebObjects as well as an installer for windows and linux. This is something that I use my spare time

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread Simon
Don - why not put your stuff on the wiki? Maybe it's not got much attention because nobody can find it ? For info I can't even access it on my iPhone. - I just get a blank page Simon On Sunday, October 25, 2009, Kieran Kelleher wrote: > Hi Don, > > This is good stuff. How would anyone know your

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread Kieran Kelleher
Hi Don, This is good stuff. How would anyone know your good materials exist? I think it is a good idea, whether a blog, tutorials, videos, to put cross-links to those on at least the following two places somewhere: wiki.objectstyle.org (any of us can edit that) wocommunity.org

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-25 Thread Pascal Robert
- "Chuck Hill" a écrit : > On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Don Lindsay wrote: > > > I agree with Robert, I created several tutorials for WebObjects as > > > well as an installer for windows and linux. This is something that > > > I use my spare time to support. > > > > Based on my review

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-24 Thread Chuck Hill
On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Don Lindsay wrote: I agree with Robert, I created several tutorials for WebObjects as well as an installer for windows and linux. This is something that I use my spare time to support. Based on my review of hits to the tutorials, they are rarely accessed. I

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-24 Thread Tim Worman
I think there are definitely great materials available to learn about WebObjects, WOLips, Wonder. Like Ken said, I think the real issue is that all the materials are very scattered across different sites. More than any technological concerns, I think the lack of cohesiveness is what could leave

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-24 Thread Don Lindsay
I am glad to hear it. Web Objects is incredible. Don On Oct 24, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Daniel Beatty wrote: Greetings Ken and Don, I have managed to see to hopeful results. In some cases, it was presented with reference to Don's tutorials, Chuck's books, and a lot of researching the issue.

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-24 Thread Daniel Beatty
Greetings Ken and Don, I have managed to see to hopeful results. In some cases, it was presented with reference to Don's tutorials, Chuck's books, and a lot of researching the issue. The hope I have seen is the students who got the idea about WO and D2W in a class where I served as TA.

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-24 Thread Ken Foust
I suspect if you don't pull together the best technology will die. I still go back to apple depreciating the tools and dropping WO. It would be a hell of a lot easier if they at least had it as a option. They should have you guys go back and bring it up to speed and then start reselling it

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-24 Thread Don Lindsay
I agree with Robert, I created several tutorials for WebObjects as well as an installer for windows and linux. This is something that I use my spare time to support. Based on my review of hits to the tutorials, they are rarely accessed. If they were used more, I would create more of them.

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Pascal Robert
The problem with this is time... I was thinking of a online book where you can ask O'Reilly or other publisher to print it and sell it to give back to writers, like Thinking in Java or the MySQL manual are. And frankly, based on the number of people who wanted to attend WOWODC East for the

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Ken Foust
IMHO You gurus need to put out a few really in-depth tutorials. Maybe each could do a little piece. It is hard to sell something like WO without a good way for people to get in the loop. You may want to review Joshua' Marker's book on WO which I thought was the absolute best for attract

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Alan Ward
...and you also don't know how many people within Apple would buy it if Chuck was to write another book. Alan On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:00 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: BTW, the 400 devs count is from the total number of devs as told by the results of the org survey, good chance that the communit

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Miguel Arroz
Hi! Usually between 5 and 10% of any group of people answer surveys. So I guess we are much more. :) Yours Miguel Arroz On 2009/10/23, at 19:00, Pascal Robert wrote: BTW, the 400 devs count is from the total number of devs as told by the results of the org survey, good chance that th

RE: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Beatty, Daniel D CIV NAVAIR, 474300D
- From: webobjects-dev-bounces+daniel.beatty=navy@lists.apple.com [mailto:webobjects-dev-bounces+daniel.beatty=navy@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hill Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 10:52 To: John Larson Cc: webobjects Apple; Miguel Arroz Subject: Re: 2009 surveys results On

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Pascal Robert
BTW, the 400 devs count is from the total number of devs as told by the results of the org survey, good chance that the community is bigger, but for now the survey is the only way to have a count. I don't access to the number of subscribers to the lists or other counts that can give a bette

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Chuck Hill
On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:07 PM, Daniel Beatty wrote: Greetings Jeremy, Well you are right. It has been difficult to make a curriculum that "shows off" WO. It can be used some in most DBMS, Web Software Engineering, and Design Patterns courses. In each case, it is more or less used as

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Chuck Hill
On Oct 23, 2009, at 10:27 AM, John Larson wrote: I'm kind of goading Chuck on to write a sequel to "Practical WebObjects." How about "Absurdly Cool WebObjects"? The Book of Chuck? WebObjects: Getting Chunky Wid It? I won't say never, but right now I am having a hard time getting the tim

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Chuck Hill
It was really, really, very not profitable the first time either. :-| That is not why we wrote it. Chuck On Oct 23, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: If we are really only have +- 400 developers outside of Apple, I don't think writing a book is "profitable". I'm kind of goading

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Pascal Robert
If we are really only have +- 400 developers outside of Apple, I don't think writing a book is "profitable". I'm kind of goading Chuck on to write a sequel to "Practical WebObjects." How about "Absurdly Cool WebObjects"? On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote: Hi! On 2009/10/2

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread John Larson
I'm kind of goading Chuck on to write a sequel to "Practical WebObjects." How about "Absurdly Cool WebObjects"? On Oct 23, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote: Hi! On 2009/10/23, at 17:46, John & Kim Larson wrote: without having the patience to read the manual, Is there a manual? Y

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Joe Little
Ah.. found them.. http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/navigation/index.html Ignore the WebObjects Reference Library links on webobjects.com / http://developer.apple.com/tools/webobjects/ On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Joe Little wrote: > Not any more.. :) > > I also noticed that th

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Joe Little
Not any more.. :) I also noticed that the docs are disappearing off the Apple site. Not sure if one is allowed to repost those somewhere else without drawing the wrath of Apple lawyers. If the docs are on the apple site, they sure as hell are hard to find, as most URLs redirect to the MacOSX docum

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread Miguel Arroz
Hi! On 2009/10/23, at 17:46, John & Kim Larson wrote: without having the patience to read the manual, Is there a manual? Yours Miguel Arroz smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. The

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-23 Thread John & Kim Larson
The only thing that I've studied as much as WebObjects is the Bible, and that is sometimes easier to explain than WO! Seriously, the concepts are so deep that I think we (WO developers) kind of take many of the core concepts for granted and sort of treat them like riding a bike. Working wit

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-22 Thread Daniel Beatty
Greetings Jeremy, Well you are right. It has been difficult to make a curriculum that "shows off" WO. It can be used some in most DBMS, Web Software Engineering, and Design Patterns courses. In each case, it is more or less used as an example. Unfortunately, getting to teach it is an

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-21 Thread Pascal Robert
> Good idea to send the request in WOLF (WebObject Liste Francophone). > > The list is not very active now and I'm almost the only contributor so > > Pascal, I'll be happy you send directly your request. > > About the survey, I've filled out the forms for Bebook then I tried to > > do the sa

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-21 Thread Philippe Rabier
Good idea to send the request in WOLF (WebObject Liste Francophone). The list is not very active now and I'm almost the only contributor so Pascal, I'll be happy you send directly your request. About the survey, I've filled out the forms for Bebook then I tried to do the same for Sophiacom

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-21 Thread Jeremy DE ROYER
Hello, Results are interesting but unfortunately they show that webobjects technologie miss beginners... Jérémy DE ROYER Le 20 oct. 09 à 21:01, Pascal Robert a écrit : Ok, so I bugged everyone for weeks and I don't expect any more answers (even if I know that at least 5 organizations didn

Re: 2009 surveys results

2009-10-20 Thread Lachlan Deck
Hey Pascal, -- I'd send your requests for people to fill them in to the webobjects-deploy & webobjects-announce lists also .. perhaps the french mailing lists also. Not everyone subscribes to this one it seems. Naturally not everyone's a 'dev'. On 21/10/2009, at 6:01 AM, Pascal Robert wr

2009 surveys results

2009-10-20 Thread Pascal Robert
Ok, so I bugged everyone for weeks and I don't expect any more answers (even if I know that at least 5 organizations didn't respond...), so I made a summary of all answers we have so far : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/doBf http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/