I beg to disagree, or perhaps I did not clarify in my original posting.
Down in this thread, I believe you mention that (re)used helpers (could) go
in modules, which I agree by the way, what I meant to say is that in a
potentially complex application, where many common components are usually
re
I beg to disagree, or perhaps I did not clarify in my original posting.
Down in this thread, I believe someone mentions that (re)used helpers
(could) go in modules, which I agree by the way, what I meant to say is
that in a potentially complex application, where many common components are
usual
> I disagree that all queries belong in models. A complex query that needs
> to be re-used in multiple places should go somewhere centralized (not
> necessarily a model file, but perhaps a module). However, not all queries
> need to be re-used. Furthermore, some queries are so simple, there i
Carlos,
You bring good points to consider and Anthony brings some perspective too.
I don't think there is a single answer here, but I think that web2py allows
someone to do what is right to do depending of the context... The fact that
the book may be misleading if you applied simply it examples ca
I disagree that all queries belong in models. A complex query that
needs to be re-used in multiple places should go somewhere centralized
(not necessarily a model file, but perhaps a module). However, not all
queries need to be re-used. Furthermore, some queries are so simple,
there is no poi
> > Take a webservice as an example, doesn't have a form to present. Does
> the model need it?
> >
> >Just because one consumer of a model doesn't require a particular
> attribute does not mean that attribute doesn't belong to the model. The
> webservice might not need the model's validators
In any framework I know of helpers are developed using the language of the
framework (here for example about
Django
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1912351/django-where-to-put-helper-functions)
In web2py I would put them in a module and import them where necessary.
In web2py you can also us
On Sun, 08 Feb 2015 01:51:15 -0300 Massimo Di
Pierro wrote
> ...
> Now the fact that one can use them in controllers does not mean one should
> do that.
You're right, but sometimes we need to generate HTML from controllers. I.e,
when we use SQLFORM.grid() with custom links for e
On Mon, 09 Feb 2015 09:40:42 -0300 Anthony wrote
>
>By definition, the model doesn't need the label to anything.
>I'm not sure there is a canonical definition to which we can appeal.
>
> Take a webservice as an example, doesn't have a form to present. Does the
> model need it?
>
>J
On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 10:49:10 AM UTC-5, Carlos Cesar Caballero
Díaz wrote:
>
>
> Can you point to an example of a query in the book that you think should
> instead have been shown in a model?
>
>
> All of them, or at least mention that queries should go in controllers,
> even a si
Documentation is important not only to find info but also to catch
newcomers eyes.
I hate to navigate on the online book and loose the index.
i have to SCROOLL to the top countless times.So easy to fix right ?
The documentation is very good but not very easy to deal with.
I think web2py needs
So, documentation should be improve!!
Alone dev practices
Team dev pratices
Examples
What should go where
Richard
On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Carlos Cesar Caballero Díaz <
desarro...@spicm.cfg.sld.cu> wrote:
>
> Can you point to an example of a query in the book that you think should
>
Can you point to an example of a query in the book that you think
should instead have been shown in a model?
All of them, or at least mention that queries should go in controllers,
even a simple query, will represent a problem, if we need to change it
and is used many times, new users, that
I don't think "God" class is a big concern in web2py... End user don't
really need to write class... Sure you can, but since page is tide to a
function and you have controllers files that you can use as an class like
container to regroup your stuff. Sure I could write class, but considering
work an
What about some kind of views code generator for "advanced" developers
or teams?, all the form generation is implemented, so, should be
relatively easy write something like that, that generate an html form
from the model (or controller) to a view.
Cheers.
El 08/02/15 a las 17:38, p...@cancamu
On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 8:55:47 AM UTC-5, Carlos Cesar Caballero
Díaz wrote:
>
>
> > Does the book actually specifically recommend that all queries go in
> > controllers? If so, can you point that out, as it should be changed.
> >
>
> No, but in all examples, queries are in controllers,
Does the book actually specifically recommend that all queries go in
controllers? If so, can you point that out, as it should be changed.
No, but in all examples, queries are in controllers, sufficient for a
reader to infer that.
Anyway, nothing about web2py requires you to put queries i
> By definition, the model doesn't need the label to anything.
I'm not sure there is a canonical definition to which we can appeal.
> Take a webservice as an example, doesn't have a form to present. Does the
> model need it?
>
Just because one consumer of a model doesn't require a particu
On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 5:51:15 AM UTC+1, Massimo Di Pierro wrote:
>
> Now the fact that one can use them in controllers does not mean one should
> do that.
>
But the FORM helper is extensively used in the controllers in the web2py
manual. And complex forms usually contain tables, or may
Actually, the labels are part of the visualization layer. HTML widgets and CSS
classes, as well.
By definition, the model doesn't need the label to anything. Take a webservice
as an example, doesn't have a form to present. Does the model need it?
So, we conclude the label (and other artfacts) d
I am sorry people read example like this and do not understand it. All web
frameworks have helpers (Rails does, Django does, etc.) and helpers are to
be used in views. Web2py helpers are quite useful because they provide a
complete extensible set (other frameworks do not do that) and they can be
> I personally do not use html helpers *at all*, but I can see why for some
> folks it can be a time saver.
>
I lean towards sticking with HTML, but there are cases where the helpers
are useful -- see
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8091487/what-are-the-benefits-of-building-html-markup-wit
Anthony, your last paragraph is quite interesting. I work for a large
corporation, which for good or bad, has back-end web programmers, but also
simple html designers. The concept of embedding HTML helpers A(), FORM() in
controllers, or modules is frowned upon and it was one of the main reasons
> You asked, "Can you share examples...?".
>
> Here are links to a couple of app pages i remember finding difficult to
> achieve using *my *level of understanding of standard web2py techniques,
> for the version available at development time. To be sure web2py has
> improved since then.
>
>
Just use pure HTML as usual and (a) make sure the "name" attributes of form
fields correspond to the names of your database table fields, and (b) at
the end of the form, include the following:
{{=form.custom.end}}
in place of:
form.custom.end includes the two hidden fields used by web2py for
Hi Joe,
When I needed to create a custom form, I followed this:
http://web2py.com/books/default/chapter/29/07/forms-and-validators#Custom-forms
I still used the widgets serialized by the web2py model code and only
modified the layout. However, it looks like they have some helpful goodies
in th
Dear Anthony,
You said, "And if you need a completely customized form, you can do so by
writing a formstyle function, using form.custom, or with hand-coded HTML.
With the latter two options, if you need to re-use the form code, you can
put it in a template and "include" it where needed."
Thank
Dear Anthony,
Thanks for *ALL your service* to web2py and your replies to this discussion.
First, let me state emphatically,* I am a grateful user & supporter of
web2py*.
My questions and comments are my effort to improve it *for my Workflow, *which
is, as i indicated before, *View* (as in M*V
As a single dev for a relative big app, I tend to put as much stuff as
possible in controller because I read and code there all the time, so it is
much easier to debug trouble shoot, etc.
I often had to look very long cause a malfunction due to a refactoring
because the offending code forgotten in
> In the very first web2py code example in the manual, in the image blog
> example, we find this code in the controller:
>
> def index():
> images = db().select(db.image.ALL, orderby=db.image.title)
> return dict(images=images)
>
> Accessing from controller to the dal, in a simple query
I know that web2py is very flexible, that's why I'm here and i'm working
with web2py since almost 4 years, but this is my point, with two examples:
In the very first web2py code example in the manual, in the image blog
example, we find this code in the controller:
def index():
images = db
>
>1. *I* find customization difficult:
> 1. adding buttons
> 2. specifying custom validation
> 3. specifying custom widgets
>
> Can you share examples of what you were trying to achieve and what you
tried?
Anthony
--
Resources:
- http://web2py.com
- http://web2py.co
> >
> >I find customization difficult:
> >adding buttons
>
> As you have python in views, you can manipulate server side DOM in your
> view, i.e add/remove class names, create id for elements, etc. Or you can
> make it through javascript. It's up to you.
>
> I know it's not the best way, bu
An inline answer.
On Wed, 04 Feb 2015 14:11:51 -0300 JoeCodeswell wrote
>...
>
>I find customization difficult:
>adding buttons
As you have python in views, you can manipulate server side DOM in your view,
i.e add/remove class names, create id for elements, etc. Or you can make it
t
On Thursday, February 5, 2015 at 12:35:35 PM UTC-5, Leonel Câmara wrote:
>
> It also depends on how you choose to look at it. From my point of view the
> message for a label for a field *is* part of the model. The only
> difference is that you aren't putting it in a database (which you certainly
It also depends on how you choose to look at it. From my point of view the
message for a label for a field *is* part of the model. The only difference
is that you aren't putting it in a database (which you certainly could).
The view should only be concerned with how to display the label not with
Yes man!!
web2py is very flexible and you need really few lines of code to actually
have webapp working that it greatess strengh...
But Joe is right about one point, documentation is pretty dispersed and new
undocumented feature are added very often...
You have already exposed many of these undo
Rather than speaking abstractly about "breaking MVC," it would be helpful
to see code examples along with an explanation of why they are problematic
and how they can be improved.
I believe one of the motivations behind MVC (or MTV if you prefer the
Django/Flask terminology) is to de-couple inde
Joe,
Do you know form.custom ?
It allows to customize in view (or controller but begin and end should be
present in view) generated form from SQLFORM.
I think, that MVC is not really respected at all in web2py... I think that
when there is a possible hack that can brings incredible feature and m
I am agree with many of JoeCodeswell´s points, in my experience, expert
developers reject web2py mostly because, even in the doc, users are
aimed to break the mvc writing code in controllers that belongs to
models or views.
El 04/02/15 a las 12:11, JoeCodeswell escribió:
Dear Dave,
Thanks f
Dear Dave,
Thanks for the reply. I partially agree. I agree that, "SQLFORM already
takes a lot of the drudgery out of form" [now my words] generation from an
existing table. However, for me, two things apply to SQLFORM:
1. It breaks MVC, meaning if *I* want to customize the form *I* do it in
I find this post to be a lot clearer in terms of understanding what Joe is
getting after than the posts earlier in the thread.
I'm thinking that SQLFORM already takes a lot of the drudgery out of form
design, and so I'm missing what Joe thinks is missing. I haven't used the
MS web design tools
Dear Leonel,
I agree that you can do and *should* both. For my web2py projects, I am
BOTH Developer and Administrator, *at* *least initially*, before i hand it
over to my user.
Regarding *my suggestions to improve* the help web2py gives me with the
*Administration
Tasks for my users*, my sugg
I strongly agree with Massimo on this. By making administrative tasks
easier you take that burden out of many developers. Not every developer is
part of a big team that has one guy just to take care of administrative
stuff. This is very true in the startup market where I think web2py has an
adv
Dear Richard and Niphlod,
Thanks for your responses. Richard, your understanding is the indeed
meaning of what i was trying to express.
Regarding my suggestions for improving web2py support for web-devs, i have
2 suggestions i can think of right now:
- When writing a Plugin or a Wizard or s
I am not sure where it is going... My understanding, is that Joe explain
what he means by admin and devs (that I did already understand in the first
place, but he make it clear)... And what I understand, is that he think
that web2py help more admins in their day to day work then developers...
If m
In that POV, you'll always identify an "administrator" as a person who
"clicks" on existing apps he didn't code and a "developer" of apps someone
that "clicks" on fruits of his mind. That's basically comparing oranges and
bananaswordpress is hardly a framework. It's an application that does
So how could we serve Web Developers better?
Richard
On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:34 PM, JoeCodeswell
wrote:
> Dear Richard,
>
> Regarding your comment, "I don't understand the dichotomy of your
> question?".
>
> I have been thinking about it. Here's what i have come up with.
>
> I am a Website Ad
Dear Richard,
Regarding your comment, "I don't understand the dichotomy of your
question?".
I have been thinking about it. Here's what i have come up with.
I am a Website Administrator for a WordPress site that I host because:
- I don't care to write/read/understand ANY WordPress/PHP code
I mean,
I think web2py serve each others as much...
don't, don't go there...
:(
Richard
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Richard Vézina wrote:
> Joe,
>
> I don't understand the dichotomy of your question? I don't think web2py
> serve each others as much...
>
> Richard
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 201
Joe,
I don't understand the dichotomy of your question? I don't think web2py
serve each others as much...
Richard
On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Massimo Di Pierro <
massimo.dipie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I never thought about it in those terms. I think it serves web developers
> by taking care
I never thought about it in those terms. I think it serves web developers
by taking care of administrative issues for them.
On Tuesday, 27 January 2015 11:14:06 UTC-6, JoeCodeswell wrote:
>
> Dear web2py-users,
>
> Here is my question about the roadmap goals for web2py development.
>
> Will the
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