Too bad that kinetic theory didn't lead to a combination with fluid
mechanics.
David
On Apr 18, 2011 11:22 PM, "Harry Veeder" wrote:
> Until about 200 hundred years ago, there were three competing ontologies
on the
> nature of heat.
>
> 1) Only cold is a real entity, so heat is the relative abse
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:53:18 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>To the best of my knowledge, induction heating is the process of heating
>electrically conducting object (magnetic types of stainless steel but not
>non magnetic copper) by electromagnetic induction where eddy currents
In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:51:49 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>Maybe hydrinos improve heat transfer? They should carry more energy in a
>"smaller" volume effectively increasing the internal surface area. Just because
>We never see them at STP doesn't mean they can't exis
From: Jed Rothwell
* I don't bet. I debate technical issues based on experimental evidence,
not crackpot theories that predict water heaters don't work. If you will not
give us a plausible reason why this calorimetry might be wrong by a factor
of 1000 then you lose this debate.
This "1000
Well what do you know about that. They have made and are selling a transcript
of my show. They are bigger and better than I thought. Next on to sci-fi.
http://www.bbsradio.com/host/spectrumradionetwork/archives/spectrum_radio_network_archive.php#
-Original Message-
Jones Beene wrote:
>
>
> OK, There is only one way to end this kind of fruitless thread – and that
> would be a small wager to be based on the upcoming tests in Sweden.
>
I don't bet. I debate technical issues based on experimental evidence, not
crackpot theories that predict water heaters don't
Scott,
The thread title Neg Energy and ZPE represents a stumbling box for some. We
know that energy density is the sum of all vacuum fluctuation wavelengths
and that even in deep open space without mass there still remains an energy
density background. One would assume that suppression could furth
The megahertz-meter stuff is coming out in a peer reviewed journal. My work
with the hydrogen atom extended to the Josephson Junction by co-author Glen
Robertson.
Things are starting to open up in many places.
snip
As many of you know, AIP pulled publication at the last moment for our 20
OK, There is only one way to end this kind of fruitless thread - and that
would be a small wager to be based on the upcoming tests in Sweden.
Let's see .
You say the COP is considerably over 30, based on first demo even though the
Feb testing was much higher, is that about right?
And
what happened to the alternapedia project?
Harry
[Vo]:"ALTERNAPEDIA," alt-science friendly 'pedia service
William Beaty
Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:58:33 -0700
(see also preceding message) From: Pierre Carbonnelle Together with Bill
Beaty, I'm pleased to introduce Alternapedia to the Vortex commu
Jed sez:
>> Nobody "supresses" Rossi, even the italian television
>> RAI3 talked about him, there are three Wikipedia articles
>> about the Ecat and the university of Uppsala will perhaps
>> test his device later this week.
> Later this week? That soon? That's great! Where was that reported?
Uni
Jones Beene wrote:
This is not a question of throwing away good data.
>
>
>
> It is a question of throwing away junk data and getting good data.
>
You have given us NO INDICATION how or why this data is "junk." All you have
done is claimed that you have theory proving that 12 kW tankless electr
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> I don't know understand why there seems to be such resistance to the gain in
> this device being "only" in the range of COP 3-6 ?
You'll find no resistance here to any possibility. Since I am not
present, I must rely on the observation of ot
Let's just put it everywhere. If someone on VO-list sets up a wiki, it could
be there, in addition to elsewhere. The more mirrors, the better. I'm sure
http://freeenergytruth.blogspot.com/ would jump at a chance to post that
compilation of Rossi's answers all over the place.
On Tue, Apr 19, 2011
Angela Kemmler wrote:
> Nobody "supresses" Rossi, even the italian television RAI3 talked about
> him, there are three Wikipedia articles about the Ecat and the university of
> Uppsala will perhaps test his device later this week.
>
Later this week? That soon? That's great! Where was that repor
I understand your need to refer to every single thing that Sterling Allan
has done over the years. Yes, pushing Mylow was a mistake. Yes, I'd be happy
if he never mentioned biblecodes, MIB or conspiracy theories. He sometimes
does that, so I switch to the next article. I only really follow
PESN/PES
This is not a question of throwing away good data.
It is a question of throwing away junk data and getting good data.
Geeze Louise Rothwells fallback argument is his electric teapot - and as
for serious science he is content with clamp meters instead of power
analyzers and thermocouple
Jones Beene wrote:
> I don't know understand why there seems to be such resistance to the gain
> in
> this device being "only" in the range of COP 3-6 ?
>
There is resistance because we do not think you can casually throw away
calorimetry and pretend that industrial techniques and equipment suc
Francis and I have discussed modeling virtual photons as oscillating on their
time axis so that we only observe their "forward-time" motion.
> Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:23:25 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ontologies of heat
> From: hohlr...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>
> In the Bizarro wor
One connection to a magnetic field could be to magnetostriction, which has
been mentioned recently and in the past. So many decent ideas are passing
through the forum nowadays, that a few good ones will be overlooked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetostrictive
The effect is small but it
Ok that's the sort of possible issue I was referring to in terms of their
policies being acceptable.
I have a domain already and can have a mediawiki set up there probably this
weekend, if others share your concerns.
If you would prefer to do it, or can get it up faster, feel free.
Sent f
Jones Beene wrote:
*From:* Jed Rothwell
>
> *Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me
> offli**st**that this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by
> NRL - and
> they may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.*
>
> Weren’t you there, a
Gotjosh,
I agree that it doesn't make sense - it challenges the assumption
that the control loop is keeping the reaction carefully balanced between
starving out below threshold or entering runaway while over threshold using
the duty factor of the control signal.
Fran
.:.gotjosh
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 18 Apr 2011 10:52:44 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
>'volume' of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the surface
>area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal transferr
Well another thing that brings to mind is that the reactor vessel could be
emitting electrons (Edison effect) which perform electrolysis on the
coolant. That could perhaps get extra heat into the water to boost
convective or radiative transfer.
I don't know understand why there seems to be such re
If the reactor vessel begins to glow emitting IR photons which are
absorbed by the copper jacket, you would have to include radiative
energy in the calculation.
If.
T
In the Bizarro world of negative energy beyond the zero point,
negative energy is the same as positive energy in our three space.
T
From: Jed Rothwell
Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me offlist that
this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by NRL - and they
may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.
Weren't you there, and did they?
* I was there, but I do not re
Until about 200 hundred years ago, there were three competing ontologies on the
nature of heat.
1) Only cold is a real entity, so heat is the relative absence of cold.
2) Hot and cold are both real entities, so that heat is a mixture of hot and
cold.
3) Only heat is a real entity, so cold is abs
citation:
BTW, is this not a good place to set one up at?
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_Rossi's_Cold_Fusion_Energy_Catalyzer_(E-Cat):_Frequently_Asked_Questions
No. I remember very well that the company "Pure Energy Systems Network
Incorporated" (PESN) was involved in the P
Oops. I wrote:
> Liter bottle shaped cylinder:
> 4 cm diameter, 20 cm length
>
Meant 8 cm diameter, 20 cm length. (4 cm radius.)
I measured a plastic liter bottle to come up with this.
There is no reason to think the Rossi cell is this shape. On the contrary,
the machine is long and thin, so I
it makes alot of sense to me, but then why does rossi, repeatedly state in
his blog that they can turn off the resistance and keep running, they just
don't for safety reasons??
has anyone other than rossi confirmed that the reactor can continue to
produce heat when disconnected from both the hydro
thanks for the clarification. does the patent and/or blog mention induction?
or is this an advancement since the patent?
i find many references to resistance but none to induction...but maybe i am
missing something...
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 21:53, Axil Axil wrote:
> To the best of my knowledge
Giving points made by Jed, Jones and (Steven) Johnson validity, and the fact
that Rossi admits to
not being a genius but requests people give him some credit for being
reasonably bright and
competent, I would bet that the heat xfer issue was something that needed to be
solved long ago and
has be
Some background...
I have heard that Rossi is using a commercial plastic extrusion nozzle.
These nozzles all use inductive high-frequency alternating current (AC). I
will be looking to verify this from a direct Q&A from Rossi.
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa..
Axil,
both resistive and inductive heaters will produce magnetic fields - A
resistive heater can operate on AC or DC but an inductive heater will short out
if fed DC. The resistive heater is still equivalent to a conductor which will
produce an ac or pulsating dc magnetic field if you choose to
Jones Beene wrote:
> *Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me offline that
> this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by NRL - and they
> may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.***
>
>
>
> Weren’t you there, and did they?
>
I was there,
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Roarty, Francis X
wrote:
> Maybe hydrinos improve heat transfer? They should carry more energy in a
> “smaller” volume effectively increasing the internal surface area. Just
> because
>
> We never see them at STP doesn’t mean they can’t exist as a heated plasma
>
To the best of my knowledge, induction heating is the process of heating
electrically conducting object (magnetic types of stainless steel but not
non magnetic copper) by electromagnetic induction where eddy currents are
generated within the metal and resistance leads to Joule heating of the
metal.
Maybe hydrinos improve heat transfer? They should carry more energy in a
"smaller" volume effectively increasing the internal surface area. Just because
We never see them at STP doesn't mean they can't exist as a heated plasma
inside the reactor.
Fran
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmai
Speaking of leaving it to experts, someone has written to me offline that
this very issue of heat transfer was covered at Chennai by NRL - and they
may have had similar reservations that this was even possible.
Weren't you there, and did they?
J.
* As I said, the reactor transfer
Jones Beene wrote:
> Whoa the 3 GW is for an entire year, correct?
>
No, gigawatts are a measure of power, not energy.
I am forever mixing up MW (power) MJ (energy) and even MB (data storage!) so
I understand your confusion here. The other day Brian Josephson mixed up MW
and MJ.
> You need
From: Jed Rothwell
* As I said, the reactor transfers 3 GW with 80,000 rods. That is
approximately 37.5 kW per rod. (Previously I estimated per liter of rod.)
That comes to 0.030 kW/cm^2. A liter-bottle shaped Rossi cell putting out
130 kW would be producing 0.216 kW/cm^2, an order of magnitu
I like to ask answerable questions, and I could not formulate this one
without touching know how elements. Plus we had some indirect dialogue with
Rossi re. the role of Piantelli's work in the area of Ni-H LENR. Rossi has
declared that his system is different from Piantelli's.
So I have asked him r
Jones Beene wrote:
> Thus there is at least a 1000:1 error in that anecdotal appraisal, which is
> not a surprise, given how much of an emotional stake seems to be involved.
>
You can appraise any electrical hot water heater and see that it transfers
heat at a higher rate than the Rossi device
axil, please forgive me if these are ignorant questions: are you sure that
the heating elements are "inductive"? isn't there a difference between
inductive heating and resistive heating? Isn't it true that inductive
heating will not work with copper?
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 21:05, Axil Axil wrot
Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Ø Similar stainless steel surfaces in teapots transfer heat at roughly
> this rate without difficulty.
>
>
>
> Nonsense. Water going thru the Rossi reactor is in contact with the reactor
> only for milliseconds ! A teapot takes minutes to boil.
>
This assertion makes no se
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:41 PM, .:.gotjosh wrote:
> Are you of the opinion that he doesn't?
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 20:39, Peter Gluck wrote:
>
>> If Rossi really has an catalyst.
>> Peter
>>
>
By the way, what is in this case a catalyst? What is it's function? I think
he has some very a
Regardless of any possible quantity of NiO added to the reactor as am
intentional catalyst,
i assume that each particle of Ni powder will be coated with NiO, either
from standard handling, processing such as baking, or from being heated to
400-500C to start the reactor (with some residual oxygen in
The current producing the inductive heating will flow primarily on the
outside surface of the stainless steel reaction vessel (RV) wall due to the
skin effect. Little or a reduced current will flow on the inside surface of
the RV wall. No magnetic field will exist on the inside of the RV where the
I compared the volume and surface area of a nuclear fuel rod to that of a
typical 1 liter water bottle. I assume that Rossi's device has at least as
much surface area as a cylindrical water bottle.
I am hopeless at arithmetic so I cheat with an on-line calculator such as
this one:
http://www.calc
From: Jed Rothwell
* Similar stainless steel surfaces in teapots transfer heat at roughly this
rate without difficulty.
Nonsense. Water going thru the Rossi reactor is in contact with the reactor
only for milliseconds ! A teapot takes minutes to boil.
. or even longer, if you are wat
On a more serious note, someone who may have achieved some street
creed with Rossi might want to pop this interesting heat transfer
question to Ross at his blog. It might be interesting to see how Rossi
responds. Could be highly revealing.
Peter Gluck, comes to mind as the "volunteer" for his dang
Are you of the opinion that he doesn't?
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 20:39, Peter Gluck wrote:
> If Rossi really has an catalyst.
> Peter
>
Just call me Peter please- I am as far I remember one of the founding
members of Vortex and I have only friends here.
It is easy to make approximate calculations if you tell me how many grams of
NiO will be in which space. However I ask you that before continuing to
think about NiO (very implausibl
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> I was hoping it would be Ines Sainz...
You called this moderate?
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/2011/02/ines_sainz_nice_booty_nicer_pe.php
I wonder who painted those?
T
On 04/18/2011 01:52 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
>
> You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
> 'volume' of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the
> surface area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal
> transferring the heat. With a tubular r
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://spectrum.ieee.org/images/jan09/images/lblack01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://spectrum.ieee.org/jan09/7127&usg=__qnWC-fBTokr3qo4pVQfn_GEUw0g=&h=433&w=300&sz=37&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=UlBliveBdIG12M:&tbnh=14
Jones sez:
...
> Wow - I realize that this Rossi device could be the most
> important development in Energy for some extended time ...
> hmmm, the Neolithic age comes to mind, according to
> Randy :) ... but this may be the first time in Vortician-land
> for having a "play-by-play" and ongoing c
-Original Message-
From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson
> In the meantime, I suspect Mr. Beene will probably not find Mr.
Rothwell's analysis convincing, and I fully expect a counter response.
Wow - I realize that this Rossi device could be the most important development
in Energy for s
Dr Gluck, can you or anyone else provide calculations about point b?
if a portion of the 100micron particles of nickel powder are coated
with a thin layer of NiO (as they would be if baked between 600-1200C
in air), how much water are we talking about? and if the water is the
result of the O from N
Jones Beene wrote:
You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
> ‘volume’ of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the surface
> area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal transferring
> the heat.
>
Yes, I know. I pointed that out. Please
Hey Mark!
Axil and I have been dancing around this idea also in a recent thread
(http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg45022.html)
I have a strong feeling that there are some electro-magnetic effects
playing an important role here.
and I also found this tidbit on wikipedia:
> Nicke
You are using the wrong criteria, as I understand the situation. The
'volume' of the heater is relatively unimportant compared to the surface
area exposed to water flow, the time of exposure and the metal transferring
the heat. With a tubular reactor as described in the Rossi patent, there is
not e
Correction. My friend tells me I misunderstood the geometry of the
resistance heaters. They are cylindrical, not conical, with a hole in
the middle. A 0.5" copper pipe runs through them. So the heat transfer
is on the inside surface of the cylinders. Anyway, the total volume of
the two heaters
Could the magnetic field generated by the resistive heaters be inducing some
other effects that help
promote the reaction, or inductively heat the Nickel???
-Mark
>From Jed:
...
> The tankless heater is Niagara brand 12 kW electrically fired unit
> that belongs to a friend of mine. See:
> http://www.tanklesswaterheater.com/faq.php
> It produces 5 gallons a minute, which is about one-third the flow
> rate of the Feb. 10 Rossi machine test.
> I asked my fr
Jones Beene reports that it may be impossible to transfer 16 kW or 130 kW
from a 1 L steel cell a flow of water. To test this hypothesis, I looked at
two examples of heat transfer, in a tankless water heater, and a nuclear
power plant.
The tankless heater is Niagara brand 12 kW electrically fired
from wikipedia:
Nickel is a naturally magnetostrictive material, meaning that in the
presence of a magnetic field, the material undergoes a small change in
length.[41] In the case of nickel, this change in length is negative
(contraction of the material), which is known as negative
magnetostriction
sorry charles, didn't mean to offend you... but yes flash is required
for that system. my apologies to your iPhone ;)
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 00:12, Charles Hope
wrote:
> Flash is required?!
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
> On Apr 17, 2011, at 17:36, ".:.gotjosh" wrote:
>
>> I have begun to author a
70 matches
Mail list logo
