Re: Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-25 Thread Daniel Mikusa
On Feb 24, 2013, at 9:27 PM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: > > On 25.02.2013 2:10, Daniel Mikusa wrote: >> On Feb 24, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: >> >>> On Feb 22, 2013, at 22:32 , Daniel Mikusa wrote: >>> On Feb 22, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: > Hi! >

Re: Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-24 Thread Kirill Ilyukhin
On 25.02.2013 2:10, Daniel Mikusa wrote: On Feb 24, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: On Feb 22, 2013, at 22:32 , Daniel Mikusa wrote: On Feb 22, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: Hi! I have 5 servers with the following configuration: Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit, Or

Re: Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-24 Thread Daniel Mikusa
On Feb 24, 2013, at 11:48 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: > On Feb 22, 2013, at 22:32 , Daniel Mikusa wrote: > >> On Feb 22, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> I have 5 servers with the following configuration: >>> Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit, >>> Oracle JDK 1.7.0_11-b

Re: Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-24 Thread Kirill Ilyukhin
On Feb 22, 2013, at 22:32 , Daniel Mikusa wrote: > On Feb 22, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> I have 5 servers with the following configuration: >> Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit, >> Oracle JDK 1.7.0_11-b21 64-bit, >> Tomcat 7.0.35 running as a service. >> A few we

Re: Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-22 Thread Technical Support
Hi, Im beginner in Linux. Can anyone help me develop my skills in Linux? Thanks Chak Teylor On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Mikusa wrote: > On Feb 22, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: > > > Hi! > > > > I have 5 servers with the following configuration: > >Windows Server 2

Re: Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-22 Thread Daniel Mikusa
On Feb 22, 2013, at 12:09 AM, Kirill Ilyukhin wrote: > Hi! > > I have 5 servers with the following configuration: >Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit, >Oracle JDK 1.7.0_11-b21 64-bit, >Tomcat 7.0.35 running as a service. > A few webapps are running perfectly well under the Tomcat until one

Webapp reload corrupts Tomcat

2013-02-21 Thread Kirill Ilyukhin
Hi! I have 5 servers with the following configuration: Windows Server 2008 R2 64-bit, Oracle JDK 1.7.0_11-b21 64-bit, Tomcat 7.0.35 running as a service. A few webapps are running perfectly well under the Tomcat until one of them is reloaded. Reload of a webapp (either by pressing [re

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-17 Thread Rainer Frey
On Monday 16 November 2009 14:24:37 Rainer Frey wrote: > Hi, > > I found a problem when using DriverManager.getConnection() with a build > from current 6.0 SVN [...] As requested, added a bugzilla entry: https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=48214 Rainer --

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-17 Thread Rainer Frey
On Monday 16 November 2009 14:24:37 Rainer Frey wrote: > Hi, > The error originally occured in a much more complicated application with a > home-grown DB connection pool, but the servlet I mentioned above exhibits > this behavior. For anyone willing to test: here is a .war file with this > servle

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-16 Thread Rainer Frey (Inxmail GmbH)
On Monday 16 November 2009 15:00:32 Pid wrote: > On 16/11/2009 13:54, Rainer Frey wrote: > > I forgot a very important information: the JDBC driver is in tomcat/lib > > because our server usually runs several instances of the same webapp, and > > the customers have to add the JDBC driver themselves

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-16 Thread Pid
On 16/11/2009 13:54, Rainer Frey wrote: On Monday 16 November 2009 14:24:37 Rainer Frey wrote: Hi, I found a problem when using DriverManager.getConnection() with a build from current 6.0 SVN (this morning). [...] Everything works fine with Tomcat 6.0.20. I forgot a very important informati

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-16 Thread Rainer Frey
On Monday 16 November 2009 14:24:37 Rainer Frey wrote: > Hi, > > I found a problem when using DriverManager.getConnection() with a build > from current 6.0 SVN (this morning). [...] > Everything works fine with Tomcat 6.0.20. I forgot a very important information: the JDBC driver is in tomcat/lib

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-16 Thread Rainer Frey
On Monday 16 November 2009 14:32:41 Mikolaj Rydzewski wrote: > Rainer Frey wrote: > > I found a problem when using DriverManager.getConnection() with a build > > from current 6.0 SVN (this morning). Basically I have a Servlet that's > > loaded on startup and does following in its init() method: > >

Re: Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-16 Thread Mikolaj Rydzewski
Rainer Frey wrote: I found a problem when using DriverManager.getConnection() with a build from current 6.0 SVN (this morning). Basically I have a Servlet that's loaded on startup and does following in its init() method: You should really use JNDI to obtain DataSource. -- Mikolaj Rydzewski

Webapp reload and DriverManager in Tomcat 6.0 trunk

2009-11-16 Thread Rainer Frey
Hi, I found a problem when using DriverManager.getConnection() with a build from current 6.0 SVN (this morning). Basically I have a Servlet that's loaded on startup and does following in its init() method: try { Class.forName( driver ); } catch( ClassNotFoundException x ) { log

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-23 Thread Mark Thomas
Christopher Schultz wrote: > Mark, > > On 4/21/2009 5:54 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: >> 1. Find an app that you can't reload without OOME >> 2. Get a profiler - I like Yourkit >>Full disclosure: they give ASF committers a free copy >> 3. Reload you app once >> 4. Use the profiler to look for instan

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-23 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark, On 4/21/2009 5:54 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: > 1. Find an app that you can't reload without OOME > 2. Get a profiler - I like Yourkit >Full disclosure: they give ASF committers a free copy > 3. Reload you app once > 4. Use the profiler to look f

Re: [OT] Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-23 Thread Pid
Caldarale, Charles R wrote: >> From: André Warnier [mailto:a...@ice-sa.com] >> Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp >> reload" >> >> You'll probably want mountains, and chocolate. Switzerland ? > > London. $ vs pou

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-23 Thread János Löbb
are there any good primers on eden, Stanislaw Lem : Eden :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgai...@hotmail.com] > Subject: RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > we expect free technical support 24/7/365 so bring a blackberry w/ you No thanks; I'll keep my iPhone (and Skype, so I don&#x

RE: [OT] Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: André Warnier [mailto:a...@ice-sa.com] > Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > You'll probably want mountains, and chocolate. Switzerland ? London. $ vs pound is pretty decent right now. It's been 45+ years s

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Martin Gainty
euvent facilement être sujets à la manipulation, nous ne pouvons accepter aucune responsabilité pour le contenu fourni. > From: chuck.caldar...@unisys.com > To: users@tomcat.apache.org > Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:19:16 -0500 > Subject: RE: Headstart on "Resolving O

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread André Warnier
Caldarale, Charles R wrote: ... It can't really; if I get time before going on vacation this Friday I'll look to see where that number comes from. We'll miss you. You'll probably want mountains, and chocolate. Switzerland ? You *did* say it was unnecessarily complicated ;) Probably "seem

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] > Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > Does that mean that, technically speaking, PermGen is allowed > to grow to take over the whole heap? No, PermGen is ind

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chuck, On 4/22/2009 12:16 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote: >> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] >> Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp >> reload" >> &g

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Mark_Despain
/jhat, please share! Mark -Original Message- From: Caldarale, Charles R [mailto:chuck.caldar...@unisys.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:30 AM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload" > From: mark_

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: mark_desp...@mcafee.com [mailto:mark_desp...@mcafee.com] > Subject: RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > Yeah, Insane just using reflection and a graph traversal algorithm to > get the job done. It looks

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Mark_Despain
rmGen errors on webapp reload" -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark, On 4/21/2009 10:27 PM, mark_desp...@mcafee.com wrote: > Ok, so my wife actually wrote a couple of month ago in Japanese about > using strategy for leveraging the Insane library and a continuous > integrat

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] > Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > It's also a shame that the values for -Xmx aren't shown It is - it's the MaxHeapSize under Heap Configu

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark, On 4/21/2009 10:27 PM, mark_desp...@mcafee.com wrote: > Ok, so my wife actually wrote a couple of month ago in Japanese about > using strategy for leveraging the Insane library and a continuous > integration server in order to prevent webapp cla

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chuck, On 4/21/2009 8:48 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote: > It's really 64 MB, of which 32.5 MB is available for allocation. The > 8 MB is the initial amount available for allocation. (If this sounds > unnecessarily complicated, that's only because i

Re: [OT] Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-22 Thread André Warnier
mark_desp...@mcafee.com wrote: ... Being named DeSpain, having a wife able to write about Java GC in Japanese and English, and being oneself able to write eloquently about an Insane Java library and its usage with Tomcat.. This world is full of wonders.

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Mark_Despain
warning... this is a very heavy weight operation. If there are better ways this can be done, I'd love to hear about it! Best regards, Mark DeSpain -Original Message- From: Despain, Mark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:01 PM To: users@tomcat.apache.org Subject: RE: Headstart on

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] > Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > the "configuration" seems to indicate that I've > got an 8MB PermGen space, but then the Permanent > G

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Mark_Despain
7 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload" -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark, On 4/21/2009 6:17 PM, mark_desp...@mcafee.com wrote: > None of the issues I've looked into have never been attributed to > To

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark, On 4/21/2009 6:17 PM, mark_desp...@mcafee.com wrote: > None of the issues I've looked into have never been attributed to > Tomcat. You mean "ever" attributed to Tomcat, right? Good. ;) > * A webapp registering an object with another object tha

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Ken Bowen
Thanks Chris, As in my previous thanks to Mark, I'll be slowly mastering how to get into this. Cheers, Ken On Apr 21, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ken, On 4/21/2009 4:32 PM, Ken Bowen wrote: I develop locally on a Mac OS/X 10.5

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Mark Thomas
mprovement of my rather improvished skills in this area. > Many thanks! > > Ken > > On Apr 21, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Mark Thomas wrote: > >> Ken Bowen wrote: >>> Mark, >>> >>> Any chance we could make a headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on >

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Ken Bowen
headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload" ?? Perhaps some general pointers, guidance etc. [to help you refine the talk in advance :-) ] The very short version. 1. Find an app that you can't reload without OOME 2. Get a profiler - I like Yourkit Full disclosure

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chuck, On 4/21/2009 5:50 PM, Caldarale, Charles R wrote: >> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] >> Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp >> reload" >> >

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Mark_Despain
Apologies if this wasn't helpful. Please let me know if I'm wrong, outdated, or if there is a better way! Best regards, Mark DeSpain -Original Message- From: Ken Bowen [mailto:kbo...@als.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:33 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Headstart

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Mark Thomas
Caldarale, Charles R wrote: >> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] >> Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp >> reload" >> >> Can you observe your heap and which ClassLoaders are still hanging >> a

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Mark Thomas
Ken Bowen wrote: > Mark, > > Any chance we could make a headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on > webapp reload" ?? > Perhaps some general pointers, guidance etc. [to help you refine the > talk in advance :-) ] The very short version. 1. Find an app that you

RE: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:ch...@christopherschultz.net] > Subject: Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp > reload" > > Can you observe your heap and which ClassLoaders are still hanging > around? You might want to check to see how many

Re: Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Christopher Schultz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ken, On 4/21/2009 4:32 PM, Ken Bowen wrote: > I develop locally on a Mac OS/X 10.5.6 box with 4GBmem using (My)Eclipse > and Tomcat 6.0.18 directly. With lots & lots of reloads, I'm not > surprised that I eventually hit OOM PermGen space in this sett

Headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload"

2009-04-21 Thread Ken Bowen
Mark, Any chance we could make a headstart on "Resolving OOM-PermGen errors on webapp reload" ?? Perhaps some general pointers, guidance etc. [to help you refine the talk in advance :-) ] The manager app is giving me more & more of: FAIL - Application at context path /ct

Re: permgen w hibernate and webapp reload

2007-06-01 Thread Martin Gainty
ssage without making a copy. Thank you. - Original Message - From: "Caldarale, Charles R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:44 AM Subject: RE: permgen w hibernate and webapp reload From: Rene Guenther [mailto:[EMAIL P

RE: permgen w hibernate and webapp reload

2007-06-01 Thread Caldarale, Charles R
> From: Rene Guenther [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: permgen w hibernate and webapp reload > > But those blog entries are the most entertaining ones: > http://my.opera.com/karmazilla/blog/2007/03/13/good-riddance-p > ermgen-outofmemoryerror > http://my.opera.com/ka

Re: permgen w hibernate and webapp reload

2007-06-01 Thread David Delbecq
Hi, The permgen problem with hibernate was due to a bug in CGLIB, used by hibernate, which prevented classloaders from being garbage collected and as such, the permgen memory used allocated during classloading could not be freed at unload of webapp. This is supposed to be fixed since quite a good a

Re: permgen w hibernate and webapp reload

2007-06-01 Thread Rene Guenther
Some encounter this problem also with jetty. Related to PermGen errors are often tools like hibernate, spring, cglib, tomcat and sun's java implementation (instead of BEAs JRockit). I recently found the following Links: http://wiki.caucho.com/OutOfMemoryError http://opensource.atlassian.com/pr

permgen w hibernate and webapp reload

2007-06-01 Thread Torgeir Veimo
I seen the problem with permgen errors when one is redeploying a webapp that uses hibernate described in a number of places, but I haven't seen any solution for it. The Tomcat FAQ even suggest that this is a problem with WebAppClassLoaders, http://tomcat.apache.org/ faq/memory.html#why . T

RE: Webapp Reload

2006-06-07 Thread Asensio, Rodrigo
Thanks for the answer. Filip, I will try some solutions with your clues. Thanks -Original Message- From: Filip Hanik - Dev Lists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 2:03 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Webapp Reload yes, login information is not preserved

Re: Webapp Reload

2006-06-07 Thread Filip Hanik - Dev Lists
ime that we need update server#1, everybody moves to #2. But > this solution I don't like at all. > > If I have to update just JSPs there is no problem. But the big issue is > if I have to change class files. They do not take effect until next > tomcat restar or webapp

Re: Webapp Reload

2006-06-07 Thread Marc Farrow
ime that we need update server#1, everybody moves to #2. But > this solution I don't like at all. > > If I have to update just JSPs there is no problem. But the big issue is > if I have to change class files. They do not take effect until next > tomcat restar or webapp reload.

Re: Webapp Reload

2006-06-07 Thread Filip Hanik - Dev Lists
this solution I don't like at all. If I have to update just JSPs there is no problem. But the big issue is if I have to change class files. They do not take effect until next tomcat restar or webapp reload. Is there any way to avoid this ? Like a replace classes in the classloader

Webapp Reload

2006-06-07 Thread Asensio, Rodrigo
omcat restar or webapp reload. Is there any way to avoid this ? Like a replace classes in the classloader ? Or load dinamically new classes ? Thanks all. --- Rodrigo Asensio Fuel Management Services Gilbarco Veeder Root phone: +1 33

Re: Webapp reload failing, but restarting tomcat allows webapp to load fine

2006-06-01 Thread David Wall
On reading more in the release notes (http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-5.5-doc/RELEASE-NOTES.txt), I figured I'd give the shared/lib idea a try. I found that just by moving the BouncyCastle JCE jar into shared/lib and out of the WEB-INF/lib of the various webapps, all seems to work okay. On a

Re: Webapp reload failing, but restarting tomcat allows webapp to load fine

2006-06-01 Thread David Wall
Martin, Thanks for your suggestion, but it's unlikely that web.xml was misconfigured just because of this TC upgrade (it wouldn't have needed to change). Also, when I restart tomcat (rather than just reload via the manager), the webapp comes up just fine. It's only on a reload that things f

Re: Webapp reload failing, but restarting tomcat allows webapp to load fine

2006-06-01 Thread Martin Gainty
a copy. Thank you. - Original Message - From: "David Wall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tomcat Users List" Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 2:51 PM Subject: Webapp reload failing, but restarting tomcat allows webapp to load fine > It seems there's someth

Webapp reload failing, but restarting tomcat allows webapp to load fine

2006-06-01 Thread David Wall
It seems there's something that's gone "wrong" between TC 5.5.12 and TC 5.5.17 as it relates to reloading webapps through the Manager app. I upgraded to get the fix related to webapp reloads for listeners, and that seemed to work (on restart with a new web.xml, it didn't call the listeners fro

Re: Tomcat webapp reload vs Java System Application Server

2006-02-03 Thread Andres Glez
> You can configure something like tomcat's autodeploy Sorry for the mistake. I mean tomcat's context reloadable attribute. (Set to true if you want Catalina to monitor classes in /WEB-INF/classes/ and /WEB-INF/lib for changes, and automatically reload the web application if a change is detected

Tomcat webapp reload vs Java System Application Server

2006-02-03 Thread Andres Glez
Hi. I've been checking the Sun Java System Application Server Platform Edition 8.2. And, what was my surprise when i didn't find a "reload" function for the web apps! I mean, in tomcat you can "reload" webapps manually (with the manager, for example) without stopping anything. In JSAS 8.2 you ca