Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Luis E. Muñoz
On 10 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Bill Cole wrote: "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world stuffed full of such little things. Reminds me of left-handed people

Re: Really simple setup guide

2020-07-11 Thread Matthew Broadhead
fuglu looks nice.  it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the bayes as well? On 10/07/2020 23:00, Benny Pedersen wrote: Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-10 11:02: i tried to set up bayes training before but i feel that i

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread jdow
On 20200710 17:02:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing about this mythical people that get terribly

Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread Andrea Venturoli
On 2020-07-11 00:32, Mark London wrote: Spamassassin is not alone. Quote: "If a lot of people believe in something stupid, it just doesn't stop being stupid".

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread jdow
On 20200710 23:51:19, Bill Cole wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread jdow
On 20200711 00:40:20, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 23:51, Bill Cole wrote: "Terribly offended" is not what I've heard from anyone but the issue has been raised by Black colleagues a few times in multiple contexts, as Yet Another Minor Annoyance in a world

Re: Really simple setup guide

2020-07-11 Thread Axb
On 7/11/20 10:11 AM, Matthew Broadhead wrote: fuglu looks nice.  it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the bayes as well? nope - bayes learning is handled by SA's sa-learn (see docs) fuglu is just glue between your MTA and

RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread Marc Roos
>On 2020-07-11 00:32, Mark London wrote: >> Spamassassin is not alone. > >Quote: >"If a lot of people believe in something stupid, it just doesn't stop being stupid". But in a democracy you will have a problem with this.

RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread Marc Roos
- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - (reason: 553 5.1.8 ... Domain of sender address x...@f1-outsourcing.eu does not exist) I think netfence.it is not really doing a good job ;)

Re: spamhaus enabled by default

2020-07-11 Thread Riccardo Alfieri
On 10/07/20 22:51, Charles Sprickman wrote: That’s unrealistic. Many ISPs these days that aren’t the “big boys” with dedicated staff for every facet of ISP operations, they are one and two man shops running WISPs in rural areas or developing countries. It’s not the 90’s anymore. It’s a terri

RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread Marc Roos
> I don't see a problem since blacklist/whitelist are terms the computer industry > just grabbed from hotel reservation desks or some place like that. It's not > going to stop their use by the general public of course. I think you can go a bit further, like 1000 BC in chinese culture yin y

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread hospice admin
Concentrating on the technical issues below ... I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. That's the point I was attempting to make about Mercedes ... painting their cars a different colour does

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Antony Stone
On Saturday 11 July 2020 at 12:42:43, hospice admin wrote: > Concentrating on the technical issues below ... > > I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, > myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. > > That's the point I was attempting

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Axb
On 7/11/20 1:32 PM, Antony Stone wrote: On Saturday 11 July 2020 at 12:42:43, hospice admin wrote: Concentrating on the technical issues below ... I think there's a fairly wide consensus among those posting on this thread, myself included, that this does not 'make the technology better'. Tha

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
LOL!!! On 7/11/2020 2:24 AM, jdow wrote: On 20200710 17:02:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh noes. I keep hearing a

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: 'Rules for Radicals'). One does not concede ground to radicals one punishes them because

Re: spamhaus enabled by default

2020-07-11 Thread RW
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 02:49:31 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote: > Am 11.07.20 um 01:56 schrieb RW: > > I thought most ISPs had outsourced or given-up on email. > > why should someone with a brain outsource anything? I don't know, why do you outsource? > > ISP email has IMO always been a way of locki

Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread Mauricio Tavares
On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 10:24 PM Mark London wrote: > > The proposed name changes were proposed for many years in the software > community. For example in 2014, Drupal opted to use "primary/replica" > instead, and Django followed suit the same year with > "leader/follower".In 2018, there app

RE: spamhaus enabled by default

2020-07-11 Thread Marc Roos
> > Am 11.07.20 um 01:56 schrieb RW: > > > I thought most ISPs had outsourced or given-up on email. > > > > why should someone with a brain outsource anything? > > I don't know, why do you outsource? > > > > ISP email has IMO always been a way of locking-in gullible > > > customers. The U

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Antony Stone
On Friday 10 July 2020 at 14:37:09, Mauricio Tavares wrote: > How long until we have to rename electrical and mechanical > connectors? Shortly after the astrophysicists have found an inoffensive term for black holes, various military agencies have stopped running black ops, all the variou

Re: spamhaus enabled by default

2020-07-11 Thread RW
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020 17:35:58 +0200 Reindl Harald wrote: > we are working at ISP level and customers have their own domains where > they can get an auth-token for transfer the domain at every point in > time > > so there is no dumb outsourcing nor any lockin > > when you use something like "mynam

Re: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread Mark London
"As programmers, our day to day work doesn’t typically present us with opportunities to take a stand against racism. Situations like this are opportunities to be the change we want to see. When you get that opportunity and you don’t act, or even worse, you defend the status quo." That quote wa

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread John Hardin
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020, jdow wrote: I do not demand 50% of my peers be women. I simply demand that 100% of my peers carry their load. For THAT I am a racist fascist. Snarf! -- John Hardin KA7OHZhttp://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/ jhar...@impsec.orgFALaholic #11174 pgpk

RE: Linux, Twitter, Mysql, Github, etc, all plan to remove blacklist and whitelist, master and slave.

2020-07-11 Thread John Hardin
On Sat, 11 Jul 2020, Marc Roos wrote: I don't see a problem since blacklist/whitelist are terms the computer industry just grabbed from hotel reservation desks or some place like that. It's not going to stop their use by the general public of course. I think you can go a bit further, like 100

Re: Really simple setup guide

2020-07-11 Thread Matthew Broadhead
because my box is centos 7 i think i am going to grab an old box and stick centos 8 on there and start from scratch with a small domain. like postfix, dovecot (full text search), fuglu (spamassassim, clamav, dkim, spf, vacation) .  would be nice to build everything with docker so that the confi

Re: Really simple setup guide

2020-07-11 Thread Benny Pedersen
Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-11 10:11: fuglu looks nice.  it even handles the vacation messages from database, whereas i have been struggling with sieve. can it train the Bayes as well? i see no problem in sieve Bayes learning, its documented in wiki from dovecot how to make this work

Re: Really simple setup guide

2020-07-11 Thread Benny Pedersen
Matthew Broadhead skrev den 2020-07-11 19:15: because my box is centos 7 i think i am going to grab an old box and stick centos 8 on there and start from scratch with a small domain. precompiled problems is not my cop of tea like postfix, dovecot (full text search), fuglu (spamassassim, clama

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Martin Gregorie
On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 06:32 -0600, Eric Broch wrote: > Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers > do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist > tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky (Author: > 'Rules for Radicals'). > May

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Pedro David Marco
Maybe Apache just need some more figures... Is there any black lady/gentleman in this list who feels ofended for those terms? please rise you hand... LET's VOTE... Would you like to have Apache Spamassassin change "WhiteList" and "BlackList" terms due to racism sensibilities? | | | | | |

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Charles Sprickman
Nice authoritarianism you’ve got there. > On Jul 11, 2020, at 8:32 AM, Eric Broch wrote: > > Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. > They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to > overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsky

Re: spamhaus enabled by default

2020-07-11 Thread Charles Sprickman
> On Jul 11, 2020, at 6:33 AM, Riccardo Alfieri > wrote: > > On 10/07/20 22:51, Charles Sprickman wrote: > >> >> That’s unrealistic. Many ISPs these days that aren’t the “big boys” with >> dedicated staff for every facet of ISP operations, they are one and two man >> shops running WISPs i

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
On 7/11/2020 12:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Sat, 2020-07-11 at 06:32 -0600, Eric Broch wrote: Obama was a community organizer, and that's what community organizers do. They stir up trouble where no trouble exists. This is a Marxist tactic to overturn a society in the school of Saul Alinsk

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
There is a difference between having authority to punish crime and authoritarianism. Do you believe lawlessness is a good thing? On 7/11/2020 1:49 PM, Charles Sprickman wrote: Nice authoritarianism you’ve got there. On Jul 11, 2020, at 8:32 AM, Eric Broch wrote: Obama was a community organi

update fail

2020-07-11 Thread Marcus Schopen
Hi, when updating by cron from channel updates.spamassassin.org I get the following error on multiple servers: --- config: warning: description exists for non-existent rule USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO channel: lint check of update failed, channel failed sa-update failed for unknown reasons

Re: update fail

2020-07-11 Thread Benny Pedersen
Marcus Schopen skrev den 2020-07-11 23:43: config: warning: description exists for non-existent rule USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO meta USER_IN_ALLOWLIST_TO (USER_IN_WHITELIST_TO) i have still some bricks of Ritter Sport chocolate :=)

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread @lbutlr
On 11 Jul 2020, at 00:51, Bill Cole wrote: > On 10 Jul 2020, at 20:02, Luis E. Muñoz wrote: > >> On 10 Jul 2020, at 12:29, @lbutlr wrote: >> >>> If people are so fragile that they have to hold on to terms that are >>> extremely offensive to some of their peers, they will get more spam. Oh >>>

Re: spamhaus enabled by default

2020-07-11 Thread @lbutlr
On 11 Jul 2020, at 04:33, Riccardo Alfieri wrote: > And I don't know where you got a quote of "hundreds of dollars per month" for > 1000 mailboxes, but it's not really the case if you use DQS. Maybe they thought the yearly cost was monthly? (Last I checked, DQS stars at $250/yr) -- The othe

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread @lbutlr
On 11 Jul 2020, at 16:04, @lbutlr wrote: > It is astonishing, but not surprising, how angry people are over these > changes though; it betrays at the very least a real lack of empathy. If there is anyone paying attention to the mailing list, can you please just kill this thread? It's not provid

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
Most every race has been enslaved at some point or other. They'd have you believe that only whites were the enslave[ers] of blacks, It goes with their evil narrative. What, I am supposed to be offended because my ancestors in the past were enslaved by Romans or even blacks? Do they owe me re

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread @lbutlr
On 11 Jul 2020, at 16:38, Reindl Harald wrote: > yeah - by quoting your own idiocy - wow I did no t want to call out any particular posting or poster. > nobody right in his mind thins about black people in chanis when read > something like this in a technical context: slave, master, blacklist, >

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
People are upset because they're being called racists when they're not by a sub-group who wants dominance and makes the accusation that because you're white you're a racist. Then our peers grovel when they've done nothing wrong. They've committed NO sin. Master/Slave wasn't thought up to OFFEN

Re: IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR PEOPLE RUNNING TRUNK re: [Bug 7826] Improve language around whitelist/blacklist and master/slave

2020-07-11 Thread Eric Broch
KGB agent Yuri Bezmenov in '85 (Idealogical Subversion & Demoralization): "...to change the perception of reality of every American [and most Europeans] to such an extent that despite the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending them