Re: ctrl-alt-+ doesn't work for me

| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | ctrl-alt-+ does not work for me on F13. I don't know when it | disappeared. Perhaps when ctrl-alt-backspace was retired. I've created a bugzilla entry for this. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.

Re: GNOME PDF creator

Hi, >>> Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used >>> convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use >>> to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. >> Have you tried Scribus? it's probably the best >> Li

Re: GNOME PDF creator

Hi, > in OpenOffice it's just about one click Yes, for one JPG, but not a collection of forty or fifty of them, to create a PDF. Having to open each image first didn't seem like a very good option to me. I could also use GIMP, I suppose. Also, it's just not designed for that -- no special PDF op

Re: GNOME PDF creator

Hi, >       > > > Creating PDFs with PDFCreator > http://www.linux.

Re: SELinux help

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Daniel J Walsh wrote: > I think there is a open bug report about changing this to use > pam_oddjob_mkhomedir. This one? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=617449 I can confirm that installing oddjob-mkhomedir before running authconfig configures PAM corre

Re: how to load a module

In fact, I have remarqued that the modprob command tries to look in a different directory ( _ instead of -) is this a bug in F13? regards 2010/9/8 Adel ESSAFI > Hi > I get this message on F13. > however, the driver has loaded correctly on F12. > > [r...@localhost ~]# modprobe -a > /usr/src/ker

Re: Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

On 09/07/2010 04:47 PM, JD wrote: > > On 09/07/2010 03:54 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: >> Am I correct to assume that MAILER-DAEMON was not able >> to deliver email messages to your email server? > No. The google mail server was unable to deliver the email to the > fedora users list server. Google

Re: how to load a module

Hi I get this message on F13. however, the driver has loaded correctly on F12. [r...@localhost ~]# modprobe -a /usr/src/kernels/2.6.34.6-47.fc13.i686/kernel/drivers/media/video/easycap.ko WARNING: Deprecated config file /etc/modprobe.conf, all config files belong into /etc/modprobe.d/. WARNING: M

Re: oowriter won't execute as user

On 09/07/2010 04:43 PM, Mark Eggers wrote: > On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:16:44 -0700, JD wrote: > >> On 09/07/2010 01:03 PM, Jim wrote: >>> On 09/07/2010 02:59 PM, JD wrote: On 09/07/2010 11:46 AM, Jim wrote: > FC13/KDE > > oowriter will not execute as user, but it will exec

Re: Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

On 09/07/2010 03:54 PM, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > Am I correct to assume that MAILER-DAEMON was not able > to deliver email messages to your email server? No. The google mail server was unable to deliver the email to the fedora users list server. Google reported a permanent failure because the e

Re: oowriter won't execute as user

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:16:44 -0700, JD wrote: > On 09/07/2010 01:03 PM, Jim wrote: >>On 09/07/2010 02:59 PM, JD wrote: >>> On 09/07/2010 11:46 AM, Jim wrote: FC13/KDE oowriter will not execute as user, but it will execute as Root. $ ls -al oo* -rwxr-xr-x. 1 r

Re: DNS problem

Gordon Charrick writes: > The problem is that when I go to the site or refresh it, I see the > message "Looking up www.kitco.com" in Firefox's status bar for several > seconds before the page comes up. I don't have this problem with any > other web pages and also don't have this problem when I

Re: Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

On 09/07/2010 10:10 AM, JD wrote: > Is anyone getting this email rejection from the list server? > > Original Message > Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 16:25:43 + (UTC) > From: mailer-dae...@lists.fedoraproject.org (

Re: GNOME PDF creator

On 09/07/2010 03:07 PM, jack wallen wrote: > On Tue, 2010-09-07 at 13:29 -0400, Alex wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used >> convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use >> to create a PDF document from a set of JPG fil

Re: GNOME PDF creator

On Tue, 2010-09-07 at 13:29 -0400, Alex wrote: > Hi, > > Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used > convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use > to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. Have you tried Scribus

Re: libselinux 2.0.94-2 testing

On 09/07/2010 01:47 PM, Christoph A. wrote: > I just wanted to try the fix for > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=630592 > > and downloaded the rpm manually > http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/libselinux/2.0.94/2.fc13/x86_64/libselinux-2.0.94-2.fc13.x86_64.rpm > > installed vi

Re: https://koji.fedoraproject.org -> invalid certificate

btw: it would be great if http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org could be reachable via https too signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/u

libselinux 2.0.94-2 testing

I just wanted to try the fix for https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=630592 and downloaded the rpm manually http://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/libselinux/2.0.94/2.fc13/x86_64/libselinux-2.0.94-2.fc13.x86_64.rpm installed via: yum --nogpgcheck install I guess this was the wrong a

Re: oowriter won't execute as user

On 09/07/2010 01:03 PM, Jim wrote: >On 09/07/2010 02:59 PM, JD wrote: >> On 09/07/2010 11:46 AM, Jim wrote: >>> FC13/KDE >>> >>> oowriter will not execute as user, but it will execute as Root. >>> >>> $ ls -al oo* >>> -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oobase >>> -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root

https://koji.fedoraproject.org -> invalid certificate

koji uses a certificate that is signed by 'Fedora Project CA' which is not installed by default. Fedora owns a wildcard certificate: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/ -> *.fedoraproject.org why is this not used on koji too? kind regards, Christoph signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital si

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 9/7/10, JD wrote: > > > On 09/07/2010 12:41 PM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: >> On 9/7/10, JD wrote: >>> >>> On 09/07/2010 10:20 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: On 9/7/10, JD wrote: > On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: >> Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 09/07/2010 12:41 PM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > On 9/7/10, JD wrote: >> >> On 09/07/2010 10:20 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: >>> On 9/7/10, JD wrote: On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: > Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose > the rpm version -

Re: oowriter won't execute as user

On 09/07/2010 02:59 PM, JD wrote: > > On 09/07/2010 11:46 AM, Jim wrote: >> FC13/KDE >> >> oowriter will not execute as user, but it will execute as Root. >> >> $ ls -al oo* >> -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oobase >> -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oocalc >> -rwxr-xr-x. 1 ro

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 9/7/10, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > On 9/7/10, JD wrote: >> >> >> On 09/07/2010 10:20 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: >>> On 9/7/10, JD wrote: On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: > Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose > the rpm version - and the

Re: GNOME PDF creator

in OpenOffice it's just about one click On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Mark Eggers wrote: > On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:29:52 -0400, Alex wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used > > convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier

Re: GNOME PDF creator

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:29:52 -0400, Alex wrote: > Hi, > > Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used > convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use > to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. > > Thanks, > Alex > ' OpenOff

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 9/7/10, JD wrote: > > > On 09/07/2010 10:20 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: >> On 9/7/10, JD wrote: >>> >>> On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose the rpm version - and the rest done by fedora installer. >>> I

Re: Creating an audio CD

On 09/07/2010 11:54 AM, Richard Shaw wrote: > wodim dev=/dev/cdrw -v -dao -useinfo -text -audio *.inf That only works if you use a pipe. This is what the man page says: icedax dev=1,0 -no-infofile -B -Oraw - | wodim dev=2,0 -v -dao -audio -useinfo -text *.inf Since I have already run the iceda

Re: Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

On 07/09/10 18:10, JD wrote: >Is anyone getting this email rejection from the list server? > Not yet anyway. -- Regards, Frank Murphy UTF_8 Encoded Friend of Fedora -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject

Re: oowriter won't execute as user

On 09/07/2010 11:46 AM, Jim wrote: >FC13/KDE > > oowriter will not execute as user, but it will execute as Root. > > $ ls -al oo* > -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oobase > -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oocalc > -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oodraw > -rwxr-xr-x. 1

Re: Creating an audio CD

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:40 PM, JD wrote: >  The man page for wodim (aka cdrecord) says: > > To copy an audio CD in the most accurate way, first run > >            icedax dev=/dev/cdrom -vall cddb=0 -B -Owav > >        and then run > >            wodim dev=/dev/cdrw -v -dao -useinfo -text  *.wav

oowriter won't execute as user

FC13/KDE oowriter will not execute as user, but it will execute as Root. $ ls -al oo* -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oobase -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oocalc -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 41 Aug 14 11:14 oodraw -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 35 Aug 14 11:14 ooffice -rwxr-xr-x. 1 root r

Creating an audio CD

The man page for wodim (aka cdrecord) says: To copy an audio CD in the most accurate way, first run icedax dev=/dev/cdrom -vall cddb=0 -B -Owav and then run wodim dev=/dev/cdrw -v -dao -useinfo -text *.wav The icedax command produced the .wav files and the .

Re: how to load a module

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/08/2010 12:53 AM, Rick Stevens wrote: > On 09/07/2010 08:33 AM, Adel ESSAFI wrote: >> Hi list >> I have a script that have successully compiled and installed a module for a >> tv card >> >> [r...@localhost ~]# ls >> /usr/src/kernels/2.6.34.6-47.f

Re: GNOME PDF creator

> Hi, > > Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used > convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use > to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. > > Thanks, > Alex > ' Also, see, http://linux.downloadatoz.com/download/pdf+cre

Re: GNOME PDF creator

> Hi, > > Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used > convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use > to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. > > Thanks, > Alex > '

Re: [389-users] Segfault & Core Dumps

On 9/7/2010 8:25 AM, Dael Maselli wrote: Hi Rich, On 07/09/10 16.56, Rich Megginson wrote: Do you see seg fault messages in /var/log/messages? Sure: ns-slapd[13737]: segfault at 00bc rip 003abb420375 rsp 580d85d0 error 4 The directory server dumps core in the log fi

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 09/07/2010 10:20 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > On 9/7/10, JD wrote: >> >> On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: >>> Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose >>> the rpm version - and the rest done by fedora installer. >>> >> I suggest you choose the yum versio

Re: GNOME PDF creator

Alex wrote: > Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used > convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use > to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. The standard gnome print dialog allows you to print to a PDF (or postscript)

Re: [389-users] ns-slapd processes not dying

Hi, We had similar problem before, but I am not sure if it is related to your case. The file descriptors that were opened by the ns-slapd process was all in a CLOSE_WAIT state. You can try execute "netstat -anput | grep CLOSE_WAIT" and see if there's a lot of dangling CLOSE_WAIT socket opened by

GNOME PDF creator

Hi, Can someone recommend a program to create PDF documents? I have used convert from imagemagik, but would really like something easier to use to create a PDF document from a set of JPG files, for example. Thanks, Alex ' -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or chan

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 9/7/10, JD wrote: > > > On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: >> Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose >> the rpm version - and the rest done by fedora installer. >> > I suggest you choose the yum version so that you do not have to repeat > the process.

Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

Is anyone getting this email rejection from the list server? Original Message Subject:Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 16:25:43 + (UTC) From: mailer-dae...@lists.fedoraproject.org (Mail Delivery System) To: jd1...@gmail.com This i

Re: how to load a module

On 09/07/2010 08:33 AM, Adel ESSAFI wrote: > Hi list > I have a script that have successully compiled and installed a module for a > tv card > > [r...@localhost ~]# ls > /usr/src/kernels/2.6.34.6-47.fc13.i686/kernel/drivers/media/video/ > easycap.ko > > but fails to load it > > how can I do to load

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 09/07/2010 09:06 AM, Zoltan Hoppar wrote: > Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose > the rpm version - and the rest done by fedora installer. > I suggest you choose the yum version so that you do not have to repeat the process. > 2010/9/7 Richard Shaw mailto:h

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 09/07/2010 08:32 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > Hi > > Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed > Adobe Flash Player 10. > > Is that one of the rpmfusion things or what? > > TIA > > Marvin Or install adobe-release-i386-1.0-1.noarch.rpm from adobe.com. -- users mailing

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On 09/07/2010 08:32 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > Hi > > Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed > Adobe Flash Player 10. > > Is that one of the rpmfusion things or what? > > TIA > > Marvin Add this file to your /etc/yum.repo.d directory: [adobe-linux-i386] name=Adobe Sys

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On Tuesday 07 September 2010 16:32:30 Marvin Kosmal wrote: > Hi > > Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed > Adobe Flash Player 10. > > Is that one of the rpmfusion things or what? > > TIA > > Marvin Have a look at the following site. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

Just go to Adobe site and download the flash player for linux. Choose the rpm version - and the rest done by fedora installer. 2010/9/7 Richard Shaw > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > > Hi > > > > Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed > > Adobe

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Marvin Kosmal wrote: > Hi > > Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed > Adobe Flash Player 10. > > Is that one of the rpmfusion things or what? Nope :) http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fedoraproject+flash Richard -- users mailing list users@lists.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10

2010-09-07 17:32, Marvin Kosmal skrev: > Hi > > Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed > Adobe Flash Player 10. > > Is that one of the rpmfusion things or what? > > TIA > > Marvin If you are running on x86_64 platform I can recommend following URL: http://forums.fedorafo

Re: ctrl-alt-+ doesn't work for me

On 09/07/2010 01:46 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I want to be able to use ctrl-alt-+ or ctrl-alt-- to cycle between X > modes (resolutions etc). This should allow me to fix the display from > the keyboard of the afflicted machine by blindly typing ctrl-alt-+ twice > (with this display there are

how to load a module

Hi list I have a script that have successully compiled and installed a module for a tv card [r...@localhost ~]# ls /usr/src/kernels/2.6.34.6-47.fc13.i686/kernel/drivers/media/video/ easycap.ko but fails to load it how can I do to load that module [r...@localhost easycap_dc60.0.8.2]# modprobe ea

Adobe Flash Player 10

Hi Was trying to watch some youtube video and got a message I needed Adobe Flash Player 10. Is that one of the rpmfusion things or what? TIA Marvin -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinf

GNOME Terminal alternatives?

Hi, Some time ago I posted the message below, and still haven't been able to find the answers to the Terminal configuration questions that I have, and hoped someone might have some ideas. Is there an alternative that might be better suited for what I want to do, without requiring creating an .xter

Re: ctrl-alt-+ doesn't work for me

On 09/06/2010 11:46 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote: > I am encountering a video bug on my Fedora 13 desktop using the Radeon > driver. Once in a while, the screen goes blank in a way that hitting > a key or moving a mouse does not undo. I don't think that this > blanking is aligned with normal sc

Re: SELinux help

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/05/2010 07:22 PM, Chris Smart wrote: > On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote: >> I am not sure what system-config-authorization is doing, is it setting >> up pam_oddjob_mkhomedir or pam_mkhomedir. It would be better if it used >

Re: [389-users] Segfault & Core Dumps

Dael Maselli wrote: > Hi, > > I'm experiencing a lot of segmentation fault on my installations, I have > the latest release on EPEL on SL 5.4 (389-Directory/1.2.5 B2010.012.2034). > Do you see seg fault messages in /var/log/messages? > I'm trying to get core dumps but without success. Is there

Re: DNS problem

On Mon, 2010-09-06 at 09:59 -0700, Gordon Charrick wrote: > The problem is that when I go to the site or refresh it, I see the > message "Looking up www.kitco.com" in Firefox's status bar for several > seconds before the page comes up. I don't have this problem with any > other web pages and also

Re: OT: linux clone() and errno

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:33:51 +0100 T. Horsnell wrote: > If I use clone() to create a new thread in a process, the child thread has > the same errno as the parent. Is there any way round this, or do I have to > move to pthreads? Well, you could write some code as insanely complex as pthreads to pr

Re: OT: linux clone() and errno

On 09/07/2010 02:33 PM, T. Horsnell wrote: > Apologies for the OT query - if you know a better place to ask, please tell > me. > > If I use clone() to create a new thread in a process, the child thread has > the same errno as the parent. Is there any way round this, or do I have to > move to pthr

OT: linux clone() and errno

Apologies for the OT query - if you know a better place to ask, please tell me. If I use clone() to create a new thread in a process, the child thread has the same errno as the parent. Is there any way round this, or do I have to move to pthreads? Cheers, Terry -- users mailing list users@lists.

Re: OCR program for plots recognition

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Hiisi wrote: > > Nice try, Marco! Thank you. But I need some tool to produce data in a > text file from graph image. > And something that I can just yum' install? I don't see an RPM, but the installation is pretty simple: export PATH=/path/to/your/java/bin:$PATH

Digital photo frame with WiFi

I'd like to show the output of a remote web-cam on a digital photo frame in my house, hopefully connected to my Fedora server by WiFi. I wonder if anyone experience of, or recommendation for, such a thing? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366

Re: OCR program for plots recognition

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Hiisi wrote: > 2010/9/7 Marco Guazzone : >> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Hiisi wrote: >>> 2010/9/7 Kwan Lowe : This might help: http://plotdigitizer.sourceforge.net/ >>> >>> Thank you, Kwan. I'll try it. >>> Any other suggestions? Something f

Re: OCR program for plots recognition

2010/9/7 Marco Guazzone : > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Hiisi wrote: >> 2010/9/7 Kwan Lowe : >>> >>> This might help: >>> >>> http://plotdigitizer.sourceforge.net/ >> >> Thank you, Kwan. I'll try it. >> Any other suggestions? Something from standard fedora repositories? > > potrace : http://po

Re: OCR program for plots recognition

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Hiisi wrote: > 2010/9/7 Kwan Lowe : >> >> This might help: >> >> http://plotdigitizer.sourceforge.net/ > > Thank you, Kwan. I'll try it. > Any other suggestions? Something from standard fedora repositories? potrace : http://potrace.sourceforge.net Never used but l

Re: OCR program for plots recognition

2010/9/7 Kwan Lowe : > > This might help: > > http://plotdigitizer.sourceforge.net/ Thank you, Kwan. I'll try it. Any other suggestions? Something from standard fedora repositories? -- Hiisi. Registered Linux User #487982. Be counted at: http://counter.li.org/ -- Spandex is a privilege, not a rig

Re: OCR program for plots recognition

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Hiisi wrote: > Could anybody suggest me a program in Fedora repos for plot > recognition? I have a bunch of graphs images scanned from different > papers and I want to put them into my Ph.D. theses. I have to replot > them in GNUPlot for uniformity. > TIA This migh

OCR program for plots recognition

Could anybody suggest me a program in Fedora repos for plot recognition? I have a bunch of graphs images scanned from different papers and I want to put them into my Ph.D. theses. I have to replot them in GNUPlot for uniformity. TIA -- Hiisi. Registered Linux User #487982. Be counted at: http://co

Re: [Ltsp-developer] ltsp-5.2.4-1.rpm Coming soon('ish) to Fedora !!!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi LTSP/Fedora Community. I would like to apologize to the LTSP community for missing the Feature Freeze of Fedora 14 :-( This mean that LTSP 5.2.4 will not be ready for the F14 Release. I am working on getting the release into Rawhide and hope tha

Re: OT - Command line manipulation of sound files

On Mon September 6 2010, Robert wrote: > cdrecord dev=5,0,0 -pad speed=0 -audio *.wav > > Which doesn't work, either. > > > Again, I have no problem with k3b EXCEPT that I must manually select which > songs to burn to the CD rather than let a script do it ... and surprise me. > > Any ideas? saw