Ok, ok, you win :) LOL
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
On Thu, June 2, 2005 2:32 pm, Laurie Harper said:
> Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
>> On Thu, June 2, 2005 1:29 am, Laurie Harper said:
>>>I have to admit that refactoring on bu
Laurie Harper wrote:
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
On Thu, June 2, 2005 1:29 am, Laurie Harper said:
I have to admit that refactoring on butcher paper was a bitch though!
I would think refactoring on on butcher paper would be very easy... just
need a good pair of scissors and some Scotch tape.
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
On Thu, June 2, 2005 1:29 am, Laurie Harper said:
I have to admit that refactoring on butcher paper was a bitch though!
I would think refactoring on on butcher paper would be very easy... just
need a good pair of scissors and some Scotch tape.
Yeah, but I was only all
On Thu, June 2, 2005 2:23 am, Dakota Jack said:
> My high school had mostly reformed teachers. One once said, with
> pride, that there had been no one in the trunk of his car for quite a
> while.
Funny... the teachers in my school would say that with a "damn, I miss the
good'ole days" look on the
On Thu, June 2, 2005 1:29 am, Laurie Harper said:
> I have to admit that refactoring on butcher paper was a bitch though!
I would think refactoring on on butcher paper would be very easy... just
need a good pair of scissors and some Scotch tape.
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Ar
On Jun 2, 2005, at 1:46 AM, Laurie Harper wrote:
I'm guessing (from other posts in this thread) you're a little
older than I am. That would make your high school pretty
impressively forard-looking...!
I attended the first computer class given at my high school in 1965.
It was kind of a
My high school had mostly reformed teachers. One once said, with
pride, that there had been no one in the trunk of his car for quite a
while.
On 6/1/05, Laurie Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > (yes, my school actually had Fortran, COBOL and Pascal classes!)
>
> Your *high school* had multi
> (yes, my school actually had Fortran, COBOL and Pascal classes!)
Your *high school* had multiple courses on different programming
languages? My high school ('secondary school' actually, I'm originally
from England) had exactly one 'O'-level computer course and one
'A'-level course. There mig
Simon Chappell wrote:
Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to think. THINK! Oh
the humanity. No patterns for us. Just endless cups of tea, a pad of
paper (or the back of long listings on greenbar) and your flowchart
Too funny; I remember when my 'IDE' was a sheaf of butcher's pape
On 6/1/05, Pilgrim, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ====
> >
> > "Strategy (315) Define a family of algorithms encapsulate each
> > one, and make them
> > interchangeable. Strategy lets the algo
Fortran
|
| |
Pascal Algol
| |
At least you had FEET!
:)
Leon Rosenberg wrote:
At least you had newspapers!!!
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 22:59
An: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
Betreff: RE: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
We had to
Leon Rosenberg wrote:
Actually smalltalk was a very good candidate, and java sells some
technologies as modern, which were developed in/for smalltalk decades ago...
And Lisp, don't forget Lisp.
Ok, let's say: java is the first component-oriented language accepted by
masses (or powered by a
üngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 23:43
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
> On 6/1/05, Leon Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Java is actually
üngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 23:43
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
> On 6/1/05, Leon Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Java is actually
On 6/1/05, Leon Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Java is actually the first component-oriented language.
SmallTalk? My "Smalltalk/V 32-Bit Object-Oriented Programming System"
book circa 1994 has a Smalltalk link library (.sll) full of components
called "components" which you could dynamical
Leon Rosenberg wrote:
Modern OSes, office suites or business software.
Modern guis, with integrated media support, integrated audio/video broad-
and unicasts, animations, sounds, and so on...
Would you be able to code them with c? Forget it.
Why wouldn't I? We used to code most anything of
On 6/1/05, Leon Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
*snip*
> Would you be able to code them with c? Forget it.
Actually, I suspect that alot of these have been coded with C/C++.
> What we have had was mostly alpha-numeric based terminals (remember borlands
> gdi?) with maybe 10-20 business funct
At least you had newspapers!!!
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 22:59
> An: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
> We had to walk in the s
At least you had newspapers!!!
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Scott Piker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 22:59
> An: Struts Users Mailing List; Dakota Jack
> Betreff: RE: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
> We had to walk in the s
bject: Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
When I was going to "programming school" we had to walk to school and
back and it was uphill both ways.
On 6/1/05, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, June 1, 2005 12:15 pm, Simon Chappell said:
> > Back when I was
I had to use an abacus with only one bead per string for binarry.
Flippity, flip, flip, flip. Gates were hell. I had to have an
"assembly" of 12 abaci around my neck.
On 6/1/05, Tom Dimock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Jun 1, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
>
> > Timex Sinclai
Getting the patterns wrong is typical. Is everyone SURE (?) that
Struts 1.3 is actually using the CoR pattern or is it just called
that?
On 6/1/05, Leon Rosenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > One major problem lies with how programmers are educated
> > today. A lot of schools teach a langua
When I was going to "programming school" we had to walk to school and
back and it was uphill both ways.
On 6/1/05, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, June 1, 2005 12:15 pm, Simon Chappell said:
> > Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to think. THINK!
>
> Hey, I'
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dave Newton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 21:37
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: AW: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
> Leon Rosenberg wrote:
>
> >We make far more complicated programms in far less time and
> fo
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Dave Newton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 21:37
> An: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: AW: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
> Leon Rosenberg wrote:
>
> >We make far more complicated programms in far less time and
> fo
AW = RE in german :-)
It's standart by outlook...
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Frank W. Zammetti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 21:55
> An: Martin Gainty
> Cc: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [OT] Business Layer Idea
AW = RE in german :-)
It's standart by outlook...
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Frank W. Zammetti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Juni 2005 21:55
> An: Martin Gainty
> Cc: Struts Users Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [OT] Business Layer Idea
Leon, I meant to ask, what does the AW prefix on messages signify? I've
seen it plenty of times but never really thought to ask until now.
Oh yeah... IDE button-clickers... I HATE THEE! I have no problem with a
person that uses convenience tools so long as they can do without them. I
have no pr
On Wed, June 1, 2005 3:42 pm, Dave Newton said:
> (Although I have to admit, when game programming or the Sega GameGear I
> would have had to pull off my own hea if I hadn't had the ICE.)
That's a good point... I do PocketPC game development, and I'd hate to
think about doing it without a good deb
There is always a cost As Leon pointed IDE button clickers are now called
Software Engineers
What happens when a requirement comes along which is not acomodated by
clicking 2 buttons?
The entire project comes to an immediate HALT..the child prodigy sheepishly
walks into his bosses office
and cri
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
On Wed, June 1, 2005 2:55 pm, Tom Dimock said:
I still make very little use of debuggers to this day, and
find the younger programmers completely mystified as to how I ever
get code to work.
I frequently get the same reaction... I rarely use a debugger either,
On Wed, June 1, 2005 2:55 pm, Tom Dimock said:
> I still make very little use of debuggers to this day, and
> find the younger programmers completely mystified as to how I ever
> get code to work.
I frequently get the same reaction... I rarely use a debugger either, yet
I seem to have very little
On Jun 1, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
Timex Sinclair 1000 by any chance?
Agh, you youngsters... My first program ran on a Burroughs 220 that
was a vacuum tube based computer! But seriously, I agree fully that
having learned on machines that had very limited memory, and h
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
And I didn't have the 16K expansion module because my dad
tried to solder it on because we could never get a good contact
No no, you wanted it a little loose, for paging :D
I}hate}}}LISP.
LISP... ugh. I can't stand any language that contains
Simon Chappell wrote:
Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to think. THINK!
Ah, a man after my own heart.
In those days, if we wanted the computer to do _anything_, we generally
had to write it ourselves, and nobody had ever done it before, so we
couldn't even cheat. And like
Dave-
could you give us an example of over-using a weak abstraction ?
Martin-
- Original Message -
From: "Dave Newton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Users Mailing List"
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
Related to this, patterns are a wonderful invention, but I see day in and
day out people trying to find a pattern for every single situation.
People seem to think that they have to solve every problem by finding a
suitable pattern. The problem is, everyone seems to be
Mailing List"
To
"Simon Chappell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc
"Struts Users Mailing List"
Subject
Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
On Wed, June 1, 2005 12:15 pm, Simon Chappell said:
> Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to think. THINK!
Hey, I'
On Wed, June 1, 2005 12:15 pm, Simon Chappell said:
> Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to think. THINK!
Hey, I'm the resident bemoaner of how rough we used to have it! How dare
you take my job?!? :) LOL
> Oh
> the humanity. No patterns for us. Just endless cups of tea, a pad of
PROTECTED]>
01/06/2005 11:42 AM
Please respond to
"Struts Users Mailing List"
To
Struts Users Mailing List
cc
Subject
Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 10:31 -0400, Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> ...
> Simplicity is a beautiful thing. That is always my
> Patterns came from the recognition of common idioms, practices in the
> industry. Religously following and applying patterns could condemn
> you not to discovering future oversights and other intuitions.
Back when I was a young programmer we used to have to think. THINK! Oh
the humanity. No patt
On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 10:31 -0400, Frank W. Zammetti wrote:
> ...
> Simplicity is a beautiful thing. That is always my underlying design goal
> for two reasons...
Now this is really a perfect statement on architectures!
Thanx Frank
Leon.
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Chappell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 01 June 2005 16:29
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [OT] Business Layer Ideas
>
>
> Good stuff Frank. Your point is a good one and well made.
>
> I just spok
> -Original Message-
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
====
>
> "Strategy (315) Define a family of algorithms encapsulate each
> one, and make them
> interchangeable. Strategy lets the algorithm vary independently
> from clients that use
> it."
>
This is
Good stuff Frank. Your point is a good one and well made.
I just spoke at a Java User Group here in Wisconsin on a similar
issue, about how most people don't need to improve their Java
programming skills, rather they need to improve their programming
skills!
I think that pattern use falls in the
Not a problem. Just didn't want anyone else to get the wrong impression.
--
Frank W. Zammetti
Founder and Chief Software Architect
Omnytex Technologies
http://www.omnytex.com
On Wed, June 1, 2005 10:35 am, Dakota Jack said:
> Sorry, Frank. I did not mean to misrepresent you in any way but
> me
Sorry, Frank. I did not mean to misrepresent you in any way but
merely to use a jocular reference out of good nature. I know you are
into OOP.
On 6/1/05, Frank W. Zammetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, June 1, 2005 9:47 am, Dakota Jack said:
> > This is what our
> > fellow traveler Frank
On Wed, June 1, 2005 9:47 am, Dakota Jack said:
> This is what our
> fellow traveler Frank Zammettie finds inherently suspicious about the
> *OOP nuts*.
Woah, leave me out of this. I've purposely stayed away from this thread
all this time, now I have to get in...
I don't want anyone thinking I'm
Thanks, Peter,
This reply is in three parts: Oops, Ugh and GoF.
FIRST PART: Oops!
I am afraid there is a fatal flaw in your reasoning. Your example of
the Strategy Pattern is *not* the Strategy Pattern. It is merely two
differing implmentations of an interface. The Strategy Pattern is a
clien
> -Original Message-
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
======
>
> Hi, Peter,
>
> I am not sure what you are saying here. I had trouble
> following you.
>
> The Strategy Pattern is roughly the following:
>
> public class DefaultStrategyInterface implements StrategyIn
Just one last little thing, Peter, so that there is no
misunderstanding. It is absolutely critical in the Strategy Pattern
that we deal with a Java Bean. A great proportion of the fruits of
the Strategy Pattern rely on that so that if your "metamophasis" does
not retain this feature, it is not a
I meant "I find your note interesting" and not "I find your not interesting".
On 5/31/05, Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Peter,
>
> I am not sure what you are saying here. I had trouble following you.
>
> The Strategy Pattern is roughly the following:
>
> public class DefaultStra
Hi, Peter,
I am not sure what you are saying here. I had trouble following you.
The Strategy Pattern is roughly the following:
public class DefaultStrategyInterface implements StrategyInterface {
private Helper helper;
public void setHelper(Helper helper) {
this.helper = help
> -Original Message-
> From: Dakota Jack [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
====
>
>
> I should have added that Rod (Johnson) in the book cited pointedly
> advocates extensive use of the Strategy Pattern, see pp. 421 ff. The
> use of CoR in Struts 1.3 for the extensible RequestProcessor is no
On 5/27/05, Duong BaTien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We use Chain of Responsibility (CoR) implemented by commons-chain and
> its Agility to construct a Request/Response framework to connect a
> request to its designated service, whether the designated service is in
> a web-application service cont
http://www.wrox.com/WileyCDA/WroxTitle/productCd-0764558315,descCd-download_code.html
On 5/27/05, David Whipple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is an off topic post, but there seem to be a lot of people with good
> opinions here.
>
> I am trying to provide a framework (based on Stuts and Spring
One last note, on a somewhat experimental basis, I have been building
an application, which for the lack of a better idea I call
"StrutsState", for state management issues in or relating to the
business layer which is stored in the servlet context (application)
layer. This application interfaces w
I should have added that Rod (Johnson) in the book cited pointedly
advocates extensive use of the Strategy Pattern, see pp. 421 ff. The
use of CoR in Struts 1.3 for the extensible RequestProcessor is not a
feature but is a way of solving the problem created by the original
use of the Template Meth
A really wonderful book is J2EE Development without EJB by Rod
Johnson, the original architect for Spring.On the whole, however,
outside the issues associated with EJBs, there is a dirth of buisness
layers patterns, so far as I know. I think some thought about
developing a separate framework f
On Fri, 2005-05-27 at 16:00 -0400, David Whipple wrote:
> This is an off topic post, but there seem to be a lot of people with good
> opinions here.
>
> I am trying to provide a framework (based on Stuts and Spring) for our
> company
> to use. I'd like to make a reinforcement of the business laye
http://www.whitesandsolutions.com/wssBase-Framework%20Architecture.htm
http://www.whitesandsolutions.com/wssBase-Patterns.htm (Two images here. Use
navigation in left frame.)
View the above links with Microsoft Internet Explorer so you can use the pan
and zoom features.
-Original Message
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