[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Dennis Jackson
On 22/07/2024 16:06, Salz, Rich wrote: I agree adding a new API for T.E. which applications could opt in to would be fine. But could T.E. ever be enabled by default without breaking the existing API and requiring application changes? Yes it could. For example, you’d have to add meta-data iden

[TLS]I-D Action: draft-ietf-tls-svcb-ech-03.txt

2024-07-23 Thread internet-drafts
Internet-Draft draft-ietf-tls-svcb-ech-03.txt is now available. It is a work item of the Transport Layer Security (TLS) WG of the IETF. Title: Bootstrapping TLS Encrypted ClientHello with DNS Service Bindings Authors: Ben Schwartz Mike Bishop Erik Nygren Name:

[TLS]Re: Trust Expressions Update

2024-07-23 Thread Dennis Jackson
On 21/07/2024 18:09, Kyle Nekritz wrote: Do you see differences with trust negotiation, or in the specific negotiation mechanisms that are being proposed? Or would you have similar concerns if, say, we didn't already have named group negotiation, and were discussing adding that right now? M

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Salz, Rich
I agree that I didn’t provide a comprehensive answer, only that it was possible, perhaps one API at a time. So maybe that addresses many legacy apps. But you are totally right that the surface area is MUCH bigger than that. ___ TLS mailing list -- tls@

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Dennis Jackson
I don't think its possible to go one API / method at a time. If we want to turn on a feature by default, it has to either be non-backwards compatible or not break any existing API. This is a problem for Trust Expressions because exposing the TLS certificate to the application is a major part o

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Salz, Rich
I don't think its possible to go one API / method at a time. If we want to turn on a feature by default, it has to either be non-backwards compatible or not break any existing API. I think I agree with you, or at least as far as saying that we really need to hear from implementors as to the fea

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Watson Ladd
On Tue, Jul 23, 2024, 11:04 AM Salz, Rich wrote: > I don't think its possible to go one API / method at a time. If we want to > turn on a feature by default, it has to either be non-backwards compatible > or not break any existing API. > > I think I agree with you, or at least as far as saying th

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Salz, Rich
Applications that don't support aren't worse off because other applications can use a newer PKI with fewer problems. I think the point is that it is unlikely this “better PKI changes” come for free without detailed understanding on the part of app developers

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread Dennis Jackson
On 23/07/2024 11:08, Watson Ladd wrote: Applications that don't support aren't worse off because other applications can use a newer PKI with fewer problems. The sub-thread Mike started has been specifically on whether we can bring Trust Expressions to non-browser applications by default. I do

[TLS]Re: Trust Anchor Negotiation Surveillance Concerns and Risks

2024-07-23 Thread David Benjamin
On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 11:10 AM Watson Ladd wrote: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2024, 11:04 AM Salz, Rich 40akamai@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> I don't think its possible to go one API / method at a time. If we want >> to turn on a feature by default, it has to either be non-backwards >> compatible or

[TLS]Discussions on Trust Anchor Negotiation at IETF 120

2024-07-23 Thread Dennis Jackson
There has been a lot of discussion over the past few days, both in person and on the mailing list. I want to share some thoughts on those discussions before the meeting tomorrow. My impression is that there is little consensus on which problems we want to solve as a WG. Resolving this is criti