[TLS] X-Wing: the go-to PQ/T hybrid KEM?

2024-01-10 Thread Bas Westerbaan
Dear tls and cfrg working groups, With ML-KEM (née Kyber) expected to be finalized this year, it’s time to revisit the question of which PQ/T hybrid KEMs to standardize, and which to recommend. # Status quo For TLS at the time of writing there are two PQ/T hybrids registered: X25519Kyber768 [1]

Re: [TLS] [EXTERNAL] [CFRG] X-Wing: the go-to PQ/T hybrid KEM?

2024-01-10 Thread Mike Ounsworth
Thanks for this work! Speaking for myself (not for my co-authors), this feels like friendly, complementary work to draft-ounsworth-cfrg-kem-combiners; X-Wing could be viewed as a profile of ounsworth-kem-combiners that optimizes around the security properties of ML-KEM. Bas makes a good

[TLS] 0RTT freshness test does not work well when delays are in minutes

2024-01-10 Thread Christian Huitema
There is interest in using TLS 1.3 and QUIC for communication in space -- partly for reason such as "reusing off the shelf components". But this is not the typical Internet environment. The transmission delays can be very long: a few seconds between Earth and Moon, from a few minutes to tens of

Re: [TLS] 0RTT freshness test does not work well when delays are in minutes

2024-01-10 Thread Stephen Farrell
Hiya, Interesting question... On 11/01/2024 00:07, Christian Huitema wrote: I am wondering what the proper fix should be. I don't know the answer (or if there's one answer) but suspect that it may be better to first explore various scenarios (as you've kinda kicked off with forwarding to the

Re: [TLS] 0RTT freshness test does not work well when delays are in minutes

2024-01-10 Thread Martin Thomson
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, at 11:07, Christian Huitema wrote: > One first problem with this code is that implementations may or may not > have an estimate of the RTT when they are issuing the ticket. In theory > the server could measure the RTT by comparing the send time of the > server first flight

Re: [TLS] 0RTT freshness test does not work well when delays are in minutes

2024-01-10 Thread Christian Huitema
On 1/10/2024 7:00 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, at 11:07, Christian Huitema wrote: One first problem with this code is that implementations may or may not have an estimate of the RTT when they are issuing the ticket. In theory the server could measure the RTT by comparing th

Re: [TLS] 0RTT freshness test does not work well when delays are in minutes

2024-01-10 Thread Martin Thomson
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, at 15:45, Christian Huitema wrote: > Good for you. Not all implementations do that. It is hard for me to > blame them, because the 10 seconds recommendation is justified by for > "clients on the Internet", and delays larger than 1 or maybe 2 seconds > are quite rare on the

Re: [TLS] 0RTT freshness test does not work well when delays are in minutes

2024-01-10 Thread Christian Huitema
On 1/10/2024 10:20 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, at 15:45, Christian Huitema wrote: Good for you. Not all implementations do that. It is hard for me to blame them, because the 10 seconds recommendation is justified by for "clients on the Internet", and delays larger than 1 o