Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Peter Gutmann
An indirect question on the overall premise here: Given that SCVP is essentially nonexistent (unless there's some niche market somewhere using it that I'm not aware of, which is why I didn't use an unqualified "nonexistent"), does it really matter much? If an RFC falls in the forest and all that..

Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Robert Moskowitz
Peter, SCVP *IS* being used in aviation applications today in ground-to-ground cases.  But the comm cost for air-to-ground is excessive.  So this is directly what at least US FAA and EU EUROCONTROL are implementing. Aviation, through ICAO, is building their own PKI.  The CP is in final draft

Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Robert Moskowitz
Oh, and it is this community's input to see that this is well designed as once something is put into a plane, it tends to be there for years... On 5/26/22 04:46, Peter Gutmann wrote: An indirect question on the overall premise here: Given that SCVP is essentially nonexistent (unless there's som

Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Ashley Kopman
Ilari, Thank you for your feedback. You are correct in assuming that this was designed after the OCSP status_request extension. It is a valid point that the extension can likely be omitted from the server hello. The intent was to communicate to the client that the server supports the extension

Re: [TLS] Better TLS Client Authentication

2022-05-26 Thread Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
This is not about what was there earlier, nor what has been in wider use so far (in which case, password clearly wins ;). Rather – what is the best (from security and usability point of view) mechanism now. I say – FIDO (or U2F, whatever) is the closest contender, if not the outright winner

Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Salz, Rich
>So this is important in one community: Civil Aviation. Thanks for the explanation Bob. That's very cool, and I am grateful to those behind the scenes who worked to bring this to the IETF. ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/ma

Re: [TLS] Better TLS Client Authentication

2022-05-26 Thread Phillip Hallam-Baker
Let me be clear here, I was not asking for permission. I am just asking for people with technical contributions to the proposal. WebAuthn is not going to work for non Web applications of TLS. You know, this type of response is the reason people stop coming to the IETF to get things done. I am wel

Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Ashley Kopman
The use case for the D(TLS) Path Validation extension in civil aviation has been submitted https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-segers-tls-cert-val-ext-use-case-00.txt there is also referenced slide deck available http://conceptsbeyond.com/resources/SCVPValidationRequest_UseCase_CB.pdf Thank you,

Re: [TLS] Draft TLS Extension for Path Validation

2022-05-26 Thread Robert Moskowitz
This is the Aviation use case I mentioned in earlier mails. I will be submitting a BOF request tomorrow, performa. Of course it is for the ADs to decide if this is a standalone BOF or a 20min slot in SECDISPATCH. How much time people want to discuss it is in large measure related to the disc