Re: [TLS] Solving HRR woes in ECH

2021-03-26 Thread Ben Schwartz
This seems like a reasonable suggestion to me, so long as the value is purely a "hint", as you seem to be proposing. I would suggest structuring it as an ECHConfig extension. This would avoid the need for multiple points of integration between TLS and DNS, support the use of HRR hints in other EC

Re: [TLS] Solving HRR woes in ECH

2021-03-26 Thread Stephen Farrell
Hiya, On 26/03/2021 13:44, Ben Schwartz wrote: This seems like a reasonable suggestion to me, so long as the value is purely a "hint", as you seem to be proposing. I would suggest structuring it as an ECHConfig extension. This would avoid the need for multiple points of integration between TL

Re: [TLS] Solving HRR woes in ECH

2021-03-26 Thread Christopher Patton
I really like this idea, but I don't see it as a solution to ECH's HRR woes. NIck's idea boils down to providing a recipe for how to construct the CHOuter, but AFAICT, there's nothing in the TLS or HTTPS-RR specs that requires the client to follow this recipe. We would still need a way of reconcili

Re: [TLS] Solving HRR woes in ECH

2021-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
This is more complicated than I would have liked, but I also don't see how to simplify it. As of now, I think it's the best we can do. -Ekr On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 5:05 PM Christopher Patton wrote: > Hi all, > > One of the open issues for ECH is how it interacts with HelloRetryRequest > (HRR).

Re: [TLS] Solving HRR woes in ECH

2021-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:30 AM Christopher Patton wrote: > I really like this idea, but I don't see it as a solution to ECH's HRR > woes. NIck's idea boils down to providing a recipe for how to construct the > CHOuter, but AFAICT, there's nothing in the TLS or HTTPS-RR specs that > requires the

[TLS] key_share hints in DNS

2021-03-26 Thread David Benjamin
(Switching the subject line because the key share hints idea seems orthogonal to the ECH HRR issue.) I agree with Stephen that, if we do the key share hint idea, it should be separate from the ECHConfigList. In addition to a mismatch in describing client-facing vs. backend servers, there are also

Re: [TLS] Transport Issues in DTLS 1.3

2021-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
Hi folks, This is a combined response to Martin Duke and to Mark Allman. Before I respond in detail I'd like to level set a bit. First, DTLS does not provide a generic reliable bulk data transmission capability. Rather, it provides an unreliable channel (a la UDP). That channel is set up with a

Re: [TLS] Transport Issues in DTLS 1.3

2021-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:08 PM Eric Rescorla wrote: > Hi folks, > > This is a combined response to Martin Duke and to Mark Allman. > > Before I respond in detail I'd like to level set a bit. > > First, DTLS does not provide a generic reliable bulk data transmission > capability. Rather, it provi