Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-16 Thread Atul Luykx
On 2016-08-16 07:51, Watson Ladd wrote: On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: On 16 August 2016 at 09:46, Paterson, Kenny wrote: Sadly, you can't implement XGCM using an existing AES-GCM API, because of the way the MAC (which is keyed) is computed over the ciphertext in the

Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-16 Thread Watson Ladd
On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 9:56 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > On 16 August 2016 at 09:46, Paterson, Kenny wrote: >> Sadly, you can't implement XGCM using an existing AES-GCM API, because of >> the way the MAC (which is keyed) is computed over the ciphertext in the >> standard GCM scheme. > > > Is ther

Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-16 Thread Atul Luykx
Right now I see no reason for this not to work. In fact if you XOR the tag as well, then every block cipher call looks similar to a DESX call, like in XCAU. Atul On 2016-08-15 21:56, Martin Thomson wrote: On 16 August 2016 at 09:46, Paterson, Kenny wrote: Sadly, you can't implement XGCM usin

Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-15 Thread Martin Thomson
On 16 August 2016 at 09:46, Paterson, Kenny wrote: > Sadly, you can't implement XGCM using an existing AES-GCM API, because of > the way the MAC (which is keyed) is computed over the ciphertext in the > standard GCM scheme. Is there a reason why you can't simply XOR the plaintext stream that is

Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-15 Thread Björn Tackmann
I wanted to explain that on my final slide but then ran over time. It is discussed in the paper, though. Sorry for the confusion. Best, Bjoern > On Aug 15, 2016, at 4:46 PM, Paterson, Kenny > wrote: > > Sadly, you can't implement XGCM using an existing AES-GCM API, because of the > way the

Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-15 Thread Bodo Moeller
That's https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/564 for those who'd like to see the research (Mihir Bellare and Björn Tackmann). Bodo ___ TLS mailing list TLS@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls

Re: [TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-15 Thread Paterson, Kenny
Sadly, you can't implement XGCM using an existing AES-GCM API, because of the way the MAC (which is keyed) is computed over the ciphertext in the standard GCM scheme. This does not contradict what you wrote, but may be a barrier to adoption. Cheers Kenny On 15 Aug 2016, at 16:40, Watson Ladd

[TLS] Randomization of nonces

2016-08-15 Thread Watson Ladd
Dear TLS list, Sitting in Santa Barbara I have just learned that our nonce randomization does slightly better then GCM in the multiuser setting. However, XGCM would produce even better security. XGCM is GCM with masking applied to blocks before and after each encryption. It can be implemented on t