Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Richard Barnes
Oh, sure. In a similar vein, an attacker can also probe for which identities are known to the server. https://github.com/bifurcation/tls-pake/commit/0e72bd5244e89970fe61e5434ca7df3d769d057c On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 3:06 PM, Jonathan Hoyland < jonathan.hoyl...@gmail.com> wrote: > You are, but it

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Jonathan Hoyland
You are, but it's not mentioned in the security section. As it's a security consideration that you don't get in vanilla TLS I feel that it should be mentioned. Regards, Jonathan On Mon, 16 Apr 2018 at 20:01 Richard Barnes wrote: > That's correct, however if I have a guess of the password can

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Richard Barnes
> That's correct, however if I have a guess of the password can I not just > try and connect using that password? > If my guess is correct then the connection will succeed, whereas if my > guess is incorrect then the connection will fail. > Sure, but aren't you going to have that with any password

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Jonathan Hoyland
Hi Richard, That's correct, however if I have a guess of the password can I not just try and connect using that password? If my guess is correct then the connection will succeed, whereas if my guess is incorrect then the connection will fail. I'm assuming here that the salt is public, because salt

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Richard Barnes
Hey Jonathan, Thanks for the comments. I've implemented them in my working copy of the draft, and in my implementation in mint. I have also changed it over to use SPAKE2+; I agree with Tony that this is necessary to guard against server compromise. https://github.com/bifurcation/tls-pake/commit

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Jonathan Hoyland
Hi Richard, A few nits. * In the introduction you have the sentence > DISCLAIMER: This is a work-in-progress draft of MLS and has not yet seen significant security analysis. Iiuc this draft has no connection to MLS, and this is a typo. * In the setup you define > o A DH group "G" of orde

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-16 Thread Tony Putman
Hi Richard, I don't think that you can protect against server compromise with SPAKE2. The server can store w*N as you suggest, but it also has to store w*M because it must calculate y*(T-w*M). An attacker that learns w*M and w*N from a compromised server can then impersonate a client. The res

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-13 Thread Richard Barnes
Hey Tony, Thanks for the comments. Hopefully we can adapt this document to tick more boxes for you :) Since I had noticed some other errors in the document (e.g., figures not rendering properly), I went ahead and submitted a new version that takes these comments into account. https://tools.ietf

Re: [TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-12 Thread Tony Putman
Hi Richard, I work in the IoT space and am interested in handshakes that involve little computation but offer better protection than symmetric PSK in the event of server breach. From: TLS [mailto:tls-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard Barnes Sent: 11 April 2018 15:54 […] We would love to h

[TLS] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-barnes-tls-pake-00.txt

2018-04-11 Thread Richard Barnes
Hey TLS folks, As I mentioned in my brief presentation at IETF 101, Owen and I have been thinking about how to bring PAKE back to TLS 1.3 (since earlier SRP mechanisms don't really apply). We've just published an I-D describing a proposed mechanism, and I've implemented this mechanism in the `min