Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-28 Thread Hans Petter Selasky
Hi, On 3/28/23 00:39, Hal Murray wrote: h...@selasky.org said: A typical video stream of 4 MBit/s may produce on average 333 packets per second, and I ask a simple question if it is really needed to authenticate all of those packets while the user sits in a chair and eats popcorn? Are you su

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-27 Thread Rob Sayre
On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 4:48 PM Watson Ladd wrote > > No. XDP is acting as a firewall and Tubular is mapping packets to sockets. > The TCP is handled by the kernel and given to the application through the > usual interfaces. > > That's different from DPDK where the application is completely respo

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-27 Thread Watson Ladd
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 7:03 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 6:51 PM Watson Ladd wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 5:05 PM Rob Sayre wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> The problem is also incompletely described, right? >>> >>> It doesn't address stuff like: >>> https://github.com/F

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-27 Thread Hal Murray
h...@selasky.org said: > A typical video stream of 4 MBit/s may produce on average 333 packets per > second, and I ask a simple question if it is really needed to authenticate > all of those packets while the user sits in a chair and eats popcorn? Are you sure there is a user eating popcorn? Ar

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-27 Thread Hans Petter Selasky
On 3/26/23 23:59, Eric Rescorla wrote: Hans Petter, Before I address your technical points, I would observe that your tone here isn't ideal for getting people excited about your ideas. If you think there's something that people don't understand, then by all means explain it, but telling people t

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Rob Sayre
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 6:51 PM Watson Ladd wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 5:05 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> The problem is also incompletely described, right? >> >> It doesn't address stuff like: >> https://github.com/F-Stack/f-stack >> >> There, you have userspace networking right of

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Watson Ladd
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023, 5:05 PM Rob Sayre wrote: > Hi, > > The problem is also incompletely described, right? > > It doesn't address stuff like: > https://github.com/F-Stack/f-stack > > There, you have userspace networking right off the NIC using DPDK or > equivalent. This is how all big websites w

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Boris Pismenny
Hi, The hardware offload Hans is referring to is for AES-GCM, and the integrity protection is the Galois MAC; SHA has nothing to do with it. As it happens, my ANRP talk at the IRTF open meeting today (13:00) will explain how TLS offload in Mellanox NICs works, and hopefully it will clarify what's

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Rob Sayre
On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 6:06 PM Patrick Kelsey wrote: > Absent that one giant slice of internet traffic, I would agree your point > does broadly apply (and I'm well familiar with user-space networking - for > example, the core of f-stack project you mentioned was originally > misappropriated code

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Patrick Kelsey
Hi Rob, Without wading into the other technicals of the discussion at this point, I just wanted to comment that there is at least one significant exception to your absolute statement below ( "no one with a serious load..."), and it's quite possible given the circumstantial information here that th

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Rob Sayre
Hi, The problem is also incompletely described, right? It doesn't address stuff like: https://github.com/F-Stack/f-stack There, you have userspace networking right off the NIC using DPDK or equivalent. This is how all big websites work (this one is from Tencent), because it's easier to drain con

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-26 Thread Eric Rescorla
Hans Petter, Before I address your technical points, I would observe that your tone here isn't ideal for getting people excited about your ideas. If you think there's something that people don't understand, then by all means explain it, but telling people that they have a "total lack of kernel-sid

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-25 Thread Hans Petter Selasky
On 3/24/23 23:59, Watson Ladd wrote: On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 2:09 AM Hans Petter Selasky wrote: OK I see where you guys are falling off. Professionals already encrypt the video files served using (confidentiality, integrity and authenticity). These files are also served using HTTP, unencryp

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-24 Thread Watson Ladd
On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 2:09 AM Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > OK > > I see where you guys are falling off. > > Professionals already encrypt the video files served using > (confidentiality, integrity and authenticity). > > These files are also served using HTTP, unencrypted, but then people can >

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-24 Thread Hans Petter Selasky
On 3/24/23 09:39, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: On 3/24/23 04:31, Jan Schaumann wrote: Hans Petter Selasky wrote: As a proposal in general, entertainment content providers, do not require the same level of confidence, that the data really comes from the server as the security certificate indica

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-24 Thread Hans Petter Selasky
On 3/24/23 04:31, Jan Schaumann wrote: Hans Petter Selasky wrote: As a proposal in general, entertainment content providers, do not require the same level of confidence, that the data really comes from the server as the security certificate indicates, which other content providers like banks r

Re: [TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-23 Thread Jan Schaumann
Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > As a proposal in general, entertainment content providers, do not require > the same level of confidence, that the data really comes from the server as > the security certificate indicates, which other content providers like banks > require. It sounds to me like this

[TLS] [TLS-NO-AUTH] Proposal to skip TLS authentication for entertainment purposes

2023-03-23 Thread Hans Petter Selasky
Hi, This is my first e-mail to ietf.org . Bear over with me if the syntax is not correct. I'm working as a kernel developer for the FreeBSD project since very long and I'm directly involved with 100GBit/s network adapter drivers and AES-GCM TLS (v1.2 and v1.3) hardware offload directly on var