Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Valery Smyslov
Hi, you may be also interested in similar work done in ipsecme group: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ipsecme-ddos-protection-06.txt The draft describes various defnse methods against (D)DoS attacks in IKEv2 and, in particular, introduces puzzles. We tried to specify using puzzles in such a w

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Christian Huitema
On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 7:37 PM, Geoffrey Keating wrote: > > Kyle Rose writes: > > > Let's finish that last sentence: > > > > I have to think a lot more about the IoT/resource-constrained client > > problem, but I still don't think the existence of clients that would be > > denied service by

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Geoffrey Keating
Kyle Rose writes: > Let's finish that last sentence: > > I have to think a lot more about the IoT/resource-constrained client > problem, but I still don't think the existence of clients that would be > denied service by this scheme renders the concept completely inapplicable. Perhaps for the re

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Kyle Rose
Let's finish that last sentence: I have to think a lot more about the IoT/resource-constrained client problem, but I still don't think the existence of clients that would be denied service by this scheme renders the concept completely inapplicable. ___ T

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Kyle Rose
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:41 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: > On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 2:08 PM, Kyle Rose wrote: > > > > Raising the cost of requests has a similar problem in that you're > punishing > > every client, but in doing so you do allow all clients capable of > absorbing > > the increas

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Christian Huitema
On Wednesday, June 29, 2016 2:08 PM, Kyle Rose wrote: > > Raising the cost of requests has a similar problem in that you're punishing > every client, but in doing so you do allow all clients capable of absorbing > the increased cost (e.g., memory, computing power) to get access to the > resource

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Kyle Rose
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Brian Smith wrote: > Dmitry Khovratovich wrote: > > It allows cheap and memoryless verification by the server even though the > > puzzle solving guaranteely requires dozens of MB of RAM from a client > > I feel like this is impractical simply because lots of peop

Re: [TLS] Downgrade protection, fallbacks, and server time

2016-06-29 Thread David Benjamin
On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 6:57 PM Eric Rescorla wrote: > On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 3:53 PM, David Benjamin > wrote: > >> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 6:43 PM Eric Rescorla wrote: >> >>> 2% is actually pretty good, but I agree that we're going to need >>> fallback. >>> >>> I'd be fine with moving the 8 byte

Re: [TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Brian Smith
Dmitry Khovratovich wrote: > It allows cheap and memoryless verification by the server even though the > puzzle solving guaranteely requires dozens of MB of RAM from a client I feel like this is impractical simply because lots of people are building HTTPS clients that don't even have dozens of MB

[TLS] TLS client puzzles

2016-06-29 Thread Dmitry Khovratovich
Dear all, together with our colleagues from Akamai, we would like to pursue further the draft on the TLS client puzzles, the first version of which was aired in 2015. As before, the client puzzles allow a server to request clients perform a selected amount of computation prior to the server perfor