Re: [TLS] Asking for certificate authentication when doing 0-RTT

2016-05-24 Thread Martin Thomson
On 24 May 2016 at 19:06, Kyle Nekritz wrote: > What is the rationale for restricting a change in certificate? If the server > has a new certificate that the client would accept with a full handshake, > what threat is added by also accepting that certificate with a PSK handshake? This was a requ

Re: [TLS] Asking for certificate authentication when doing 0-RTT

2016-05-24 Thread Kyle Nekritz
What is the rationale for restricting a change in certificate? If the server has a new certificate that the client would accept with a full handshake, what threat is added by also accepting that certificate with a PSK handshake? Requiring the certificate to remain the same will make rollout of a

Re: [TLS] Issue 471: Relax requirement to invalidate sessions on fatal errors

2016-05-24 Thread Benjamin Kaduk
Version -13 includes neither the word "stateful" nor "stateless", so if Yaron's proposal is taken, it would be better to explicitly refer to session tickets or ID-based resumption (with appropriate citations). That said, I'm not sure I see the need for a normative requirement on the server; we cou

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Quynh Dang
If that is what you are worried about, then that would make sense. Quynh. On May 24, 2016 4:23 PM, "Eric Rescorla" wrote: > No, a smaller computation (say 2^{64}) and then collecting 2^{40} > connections all of which encipher the same plaintext (e.g., "GET /...") > > -Ekr > > > On Tue, May 24, 2

Re: [TLS] Asking for certificate authentication when doing 0-RTT

2016-05-24 Thread Martin Thomson
On 20 May 2016 at 12:41, Ilari Liusvaara wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 10:10:29AM -0400, Martin Thomson wrote: >> I just posted this: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-thomson-tls-0rtt-and-certs/ >> >> It's fairly self explanatory. The idea is to create a way to signal >> that the c

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Eric Rescorla
No, a smaller computation (say 2^{64}) and then collecting 2^{40} connections all of which encipher the same plaintext (e.g., "GET /...") -Ekr On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Quynh Dang wrote: > Are you worried about 2^96 precomputation and the risk of 1/2^32 of > cracking your key? > > Quynh

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Quynh Dang
Are you worried about 2^96 precomputation and the risk of 1/2^32 of cracking your key? Quynh. On May 24, 2016 3:05 PM, "Eric Rescorla" wrote: > > > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Dang, Quynh (Fed) > wrote: > >> >> >> On 5/24/16, 2:42 PM, "Martin Thomson" wrote: >> >> >On 24 May 2016 at 10:4

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Eric Rescorla
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: > > > On 5/24/16, 2:42 PM, "Martin Thomson" wrote: > > >On 24 May 2016 at 10:46, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: > >>>We discussed this at quite some length. I originally took your > >>>position, but the IVs add an extra layer of safety at ve

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Dang, Quynh (Fed)
On 5/24/16, 2:42 PM, "Martin Thomson" wrote: >On 24 May 2016 at 10:46, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: >>>We discussed this at quite some length. I originally took your >>>position, but the IVs add an extra layer of safety at very little >>>cost. >> >> I don¹t see any extra layer here. > > >The argu

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Martin Thomson
On 24 May 2016 at 10:46, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: >>We discussed this at quite some length. I originally took your >>position, but the IVs add an extra layer of safety at very little >>cost. > > I don¹t see any extra layer here. The argument here is that there are only 2^128 keys and some proto

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Ilari Liusvaara
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 10:44:15AM -0700, Colm MacCárthaigh wrote: > On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Martin Thomson > wrote: > > > > 3. "The padded sequence number is XORed with the static client_write_iv > > or > > > server_write_iv, depending on the role.” I think the ivs are not needed. > > >

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Dang, Quynh (Fed)
On 5/24/16, 12:58 PM, "ilariliusva...@welho.com on behalf of Ilari Liusvaara" wrote: >On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 03:20:17PM +, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: >> Hi Eric, >> >> 1. For this text: "plus the length of the output of the signing >> algorithm. " in the last paragraph of Section 4.8.1, di

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Dang, Quynh (Fed)
On 5/24/16, 12:13 PM, "Martin Thomson" wrote: >On 24 May 2016 at 08:20, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: >> 1. For this text: "plus the length of the output of the signing >>algorithm. >> " in the last paragraph of Section 4.8.1, did you mean "plus the output >>of >> the signing algorithm.² ? > >The

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Colm MacCárthaigh
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Martin Thomson wrote: > > 3. "The padded sequence number is XORed with the static client_write_iv > or > > server_write_iv, depending on the role.” I think the ivs are not needed. > > We discussed this at quite some length. I originally took your > position, but

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Ilari Liusvaara
On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 03:20:17PM +, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: > Hi Eric, > > 1. For this text: "plus the length of the output of the signing > algorithm. " in the last paragraph of Section 4.8.1, did you mean > "plus the output of the signing algorithm." ? The paragraph seems to talk about

Re: [TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Martin Thomson
On 24 May 2016 at 08:20, Dang, Quynh (Fed) wrote: > 1. For this text: "plus the length of the output of the signing algorithm. > " in the last paragraph of Section 4.8.1, did you mean "plus the output of > the signing algorithm.” ? The text is correct. It is talking about the length of the stru

[TLS] Comments on nonce construction and cipher text size restriction.

2016-05-24 Thread Dang, Quynh (Fed)
Hi Eric, 1. For this text: "plus the length of the output of the signing algorithm. " in the last paragraph of Section 4.8.1, did you mean "plus the output of the signing algorithm." ? 2. "The length (in bytes) of the following TLSCiphertext.fragment. The length MUST NOT exceed 2^14 + 256. An