Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Dan Horák
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 19:07:04 -0400 Bill Nottingham wrote: > Jan Wildeboer (jwild...@redhat.com) said: > > How will you track blocker bugs? > > > > How can we see a global view of all open bugs? Aggregate from X > > upstream bug report systems? Which not all are Bugzilla? > > > > How can we tra

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Alexander Todorov
На 24.09.2013 02:44, Jonathan Kamens написа: 2) Most Fedora users are not developers. If they have to jump through hoops to figure out where to report bugs, then they won't report the bugs. The "one-stop shop" that Red Hat bugzilla provides as a point of entry for all bugs that users encounter in

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Ralf Corsepius
On 09/24/2013 03:45 AM, Michal Jaegermann wrote: On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 09:49:23PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of hosting our own. ... Thoughts and comm

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Ralf Corsepius
On 09/23/2013 11:49 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: Greetings you all After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of hosting our own. Now it pretty much boils down to this. 1. Generic attitude of many main

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Frank Murphy
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 21:49:23 + "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: > Greetings you all > > After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move > entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of > hosting our own. > There is also a thread on infra https://lists.

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Peter Gueckel
Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: > After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move > entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of > hosting our own. I don't chant that mantra. I am a Fedora consumer, not a maintainer or programmer. My bug reports to bugzilla

Re: F20-rc3, gnome-shell logoff?

2013-09-23 Thread Ankur Sinha
On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 10:25 -0400, Gene Czarcinski wrote: > > Ok, clever idea. Just wondering what kind of thought went into this > > though. I can't count the times I have been ordered to 'logout and > back > > on' after a round of updates. Reboot? Every year Windows is > getting a > > little

Re: Adventures with Heisenbug Alpha

2013-09-23 Thread Ankur Sinha
On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 16:10 -0700, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote: > This mini flag day should be mentioned in the release notes. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_To_Contribute_to_the_Release_Notes?rd=Docs/Beats/HowTo#Using_.2Adocs.2A_in_Bugzilla -- Thanks, Warm regards, Ankur (FranciscoD) http:

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Fernando Cassia
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Jonathan Kamens wrote: > Most Fedora users are not developers. If they have to jump through hoops > to figure out where to report bugs, then they won't report the bugs. The > "one-stop shop" that Red Hat bugzilla provides as a point of entry for all > bugs that us

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Bob Lightfoot
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/23/2013 05:49 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: > Greetings you all > > After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move > entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept > of hosting our own. > > Now it prett

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jonathan Kamens
On 09/23/2013 10:03 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: On 09/24/2013 01:45 AM, Michal Jaegermann wrote: This absolutely does not scale from a POV of a user reporting bugs. Well neither does it do so from developer standpoint that also has to maintain downstream distribution bugzilla accounts.

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 09/24/2013 01:45 AM, Michal Jaegermann wrote: This absolutely does not scale from a POV of a user reporting bugs. Well neither does it do so from developer standpoint that also has to maintain downstream distribution bugzilla accounts. Basically the amount of work and the effort are on pa

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Michal Jaegermann
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 09:49:23PM +, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: > > After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move > entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of > hosting our own. ... > Thoughts and comment. This absolutely does not scale from a

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Bob Arendt
On 09/23/2013 04:58 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: On 09/23/2013 11:55 PM, Felix Miata wrote: What to do when someone discovers what is clearly a problem but neither he nor anyone reading his report here or on devel list can tell whether the bug is in kernel, driver, xorg, gnome/kde/xfce/e

Intel SRT,

2013-09-23 Thread Chris Murphy
Does anyone know the prevalence of computers shipping with Intel Smart Response Technology (binds SSD and HDD, using SSD as a cache) enabled? And should there be an RFE for anaconda to identify such configurations? There are some products that come this way, and linux does not support this. The

Fedora 18 updates-testing report

2013-09-23 Thread updates
The following Fedora 18 Security updates need testing: Age URL 156 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2013-6117/eucalyptus-3.2.2-1.fc18 68 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2013-13131/livecd-tools-18.17-1.fc18 52 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jonathan Kamens
On 09/23/2013 07:58 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: On 09/23/2013 11:55 PM, Felix Miata wrote: What to do when someone discovers what is clearly a problem but neither he nor anyone reading his report here or on devel list can tell whether the bug is in kernel, driver, xorg, gnome/kde/xfce/et

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 09/23/2013 11:55 PM, Felix Miata wrote: What to do when someone discovers what is clearly a problem but neither he nor anyone reading his report here or on devel list can tell whether the bug is in kernel, driver, xorg, gnome/kde/xfce/etc. or something else? Well I'm pretty sure upstream

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Michael Schwendt
On Mon, 23 Sep 2013 23:21:13 +, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: > On 09/23/2013 11:07 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > - Not all things we ship have active upstream bug trackers to fall back on > > What do you think that tells us about the thing we are shipping? Nothing. There are large proje

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Felix Miata
What to do when someone discovers what is clearly a problem but neither he nor anyone reading his report here or on devel list can tell whether the bug is in kernel, driver, xorg, gnome/kde/xfce/etc. or something else? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persua

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Clyde E. Kunkel
On 09/23/2013 05:49 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: Greetings you all After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of hosting our own. Now it pretty much boils down to this. 1. Generic attitude of many main

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jonathan Kamens
This is as bad of an idea now as it has been every previous time it has been suggested. 1) Many of the bugs which get filed against Fedora are just that, Fedora bugs, not bugs in upstream packages. Missing file in a package? Fedora bug. Package linked against the wrong version? Fedora bug. Bug

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 09/23/2013 11:07 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: Jan Wildeboer (jwild...@redhat.com) said: How will you track blocker bugs? How can we see a global view of all open bugs? Aggregate from X upstream bug report systems? Which not all are Bugzilla? How can we track critical bugs? Additional concer

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 09/23/2013 10:59 PM, Jan Wildeboer wrote: How will you track blocker bugs? Given that we are the ones filling them that's should not be an hard issue to overcome. How can we see a global view of all open bugs? Aggregate from X upstream bug report systems? Which not all are Bugzilla? H

Re: Adventures with Heisenbug Alpha

2013-09-23 Thread Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX
On 09/23/2013 02:14 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 10:07 +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote: On Sun, 2013-09-22 at 15:39 -0700, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote: The following script no longer generates the vlf6.plt file as it used to. The ds5 program works properly when invoked from the sh

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jan Wildeboer (jwild...@redhat.com) said: > How will you track blocker bugs? > > How can we see a global view of all open bugs? Aggregate from X upstream bug > report systems? Which not all are Bugzilla? > > How can we track critical bugs? Additional concerns I'd have above this: - Not all th

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
On 09/23/2013 10:43 PM, nonamedotc wrote: While I do think this is a good idea, I am a few immediate concerns on which I would request a bit more information/guidance - 1. What if a bug is due to a specific combination libraries or builds in Fedora and not necessarily an upstream issue? Upst

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jan Wildeboer
How will you track blocker bugs? How can we see a global view of all open bugs? Aggregate from X upstream bug report systems? Which not all are Bugzilla? How can we track critical bugs? Jan -- Jan H Wildeboer| EMEA Open Source Affairs | Office: +49 (0)89 205071-207 Red

Re: Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread nonamedotc
On 09/23/2013 04:49 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: Greetings you all After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of hosting our own. Now it pretty much boils down to this. 1. Generic attitude of many

Moving away from reporting to RH bugzilla and adopting pure upstream reporting mantra.

2013-09-23 Thread Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
Greetings you all After bit of irc discussion there is a compelling reason to move entirely away from Red Hat bugzilla as well as away from concept of hosting our own. Now it pretty much boils down to this. 1. Generic attitude of many maintainers is that reports either go to the correct pla

Re: [Fedora-packaging] up* httrack

2013-09-23 Thread Michal Jaegermann
On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 04:12:14PM +0200, poma wrote: > file /usr/share/httrack/html;524026ec is not owned by any package > file /usr/share/httrack/html;52402710 is not owned by any package > file /usr/share/httrack/html;52402c94 is not owned by any package > file /usr/share/httrack/html;52402ca4 i

Re: F20-rc3, gnome-shell logoff?

2013-09-23 Thread Gene Czarcinski
On 09/20/2013 01:22 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2013-09-20 at 12:35 -0400, Gene Czarcinski wrote: On 09/20/2013 11:54 AM, Matthias Clasen wrote: On Fri, 2013-09-20 at 00:56 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: It was changed because people complained about having their name visible in public

Re: F20-rc3, gnome-shell logoff?

2013-09-23 Thread Gene Czarcinski
On 09/20/2013 10:44 PM, John Morris wrote: On Thu, 2013-09-19 at 11:02 +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote: If there's only one user, the log out option doesn't appear and you need to run "gnome-session-quit" in the "alt f2" command dialog to log out. Ok, clever idea. Just wondering what kind of thought

Re: [Fedora-packaging] up* httrack

2013-09-23 Thread poma
On 23.09.2013 14:35, Christopher Meng wrote: > I guess that this dir has immutable attr. > > Pure install has no problem. > # rpm -qf /usr/share/httrack/* httrack-3.43.9-7.fc20.i686 file /usr/share/httrack/html;524026ec is not owned by any package file /usr/share/httrack/html;52402710 is not owne

[Test-Announce] 2013-09-23 @ 15:00 UTC - Fedora QA Meeting

2013-09-23 Thread Adam Williamson
more things to do to prepare for it, and it's time to look ahead to Beta as well. This is a reminder of the upcoming QA meeting. Please add any topic suggestions to the meeting wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20130923 The current proposed agenda is included below. == Propo

Re: Adventures with Heisenbug Alpha

2013-09-23 Thread Adam Williamson
On Mon, 2013-09-23 at 10:07 +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote: > On Sun, 2013-09-22 at 15:39 -0700, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote: > > The following script no longer > > generates the vlf6.plt file as it used to. The ds5 program works > > properly > > when invoked from the shell. > > > > > $command =