Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread tlaronde
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 12:05:32AM +0100, Kamil Rytarowski wrote: > On 09.11.2020 21:46, Robert Elz wrote: > > Date:Mon, 9 Nov 2020 19:05:23 +0100 > > From:Kamil Rytarowski > > Message-ID: <04c9e1ad-df4e-1372-74d3-a17fdd5dd...@netbsd.org> > > > > | I propose to remo

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Robert Elz
Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 00:05:32 +0100 From:Kamil Rytarowski Message-ID: | Do you use it? Do you know anybody who uses it on NetBSD-current? I might start. Particularly for the pages that mandoc can't format properly. | I don't trust that these people are track

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
On 10.11.2020 10:30, Robert Elz wrote: > Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 00:05:32 +0100 > From:Kamil Rytarowski > Message-ID: > > | Do you use it? Do you know anybody who uses it on NetBSD-current? > > I might start. Particularly for the pages that mandoc can't format pro

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Robert Elz
Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:14:12 +0100 From:Kamil Rytarowski Message-ID: | If you still can find any man-page that is unsupported by mandoc, please | let me know and I will report it. That was done (by someone else, sorry, I have forgotten who that was) earlier in

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Greg Troxel
Kamil Rytarowski writes: > It's not a selling point to any regular user, born after A.D. 2000 to > optimize reading man pages. This ageist comment is offensive and not appropriate on NetBSD lists. It's also remarkably off base; the notion that most NetBSD users are less than 20 years old seems

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
On 10.11.2020 12:59, Robert Elz wrote: > Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:14:12 +0100 > From:Kamil Rytarowski > Message-ID: > > | If you still can find any man-page that is unsupported by mandoc, please > | let me know and I will report it. > > That was done (by someone

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Mouse
> cat-pages always finish with .0 (unless compressed) and that way they > are integrated into man.conf(5). That is not my experience; I have not infrequently seen them named ending with .cat1, .cat2, .cat3, etc. I think I've even seen them named simply .1, .2, .3, etc, differentiated from the inp

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Robert Elz
Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 14:13:04 -0500 (EST) From:Mouse Message-ID: <202011101913.oaa19...@stone.rodents-montreal.org> | I certainly don't see any reason kre shouldn't name catpages with a | manual-section suffix, if that works for him. It wasn't due to any specifi

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Robert Elz
Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:28:41 +0100 From:Kamil Rytarowski Message-ID: | I hope this is a typo, and not the indication that you forgot how to use | the cat-pages at all and miss a computer to cross-check how these files | are named. As in my reply to Mouse, I

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
On 10.11.2020 23:04, Robert Elz wrote: > Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:28:41 +0100 > From:Kamil Rytarowski > Message-ID: > > | I hope this is a typo, and not the indication that you forgot how to use > | the cat-pages at all and miss a computer to cross-check how thes

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Mouse
I just discovered another reason I would like to keep catpages, or at the very least support for them if the admin cares to enable it. I was on a 9.1 system (for work, not that that matters to my point) booted single-user. And look: # man installboot man: Formatting manual page... man: /tmp/man.

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Greg Troxel
Kamil Rytarowski writes: > I am surprised that the proposal to remove MK${FOO} is read as removal > of the Makefile conditionals and keep ${FOO} in the base. With that > bizarre interpretation the whole proposal renders into useless idea. > > I would be very surprised to interpret that e.g. prop

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Jaromír Doleček
Le mar. 10 nov. 2020 à 23:45, Mouse a écrit : > And, of course, when you're up single-user is, generally, when you're > least able to bring other tools to bear or the like, and when you're > possibly most likely need to know how to use a command you don't use > enough to have memorized. Fortunate

set -o emacs when su?

2020-11-10 Thread Mouse
NetBSD/amd64 9.1. root's shell is /bin/sh. What do I have to do to arrange that "set -o emacs" is in effect when I su? I'm would expect I just need to drop the right incantation into the right file, but so far I have failed to discover the magic formula. I've been limping along manually typing s

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Christian Groessler
On 11/11/20 12:17 AM, Jaromír Doleček wrote: Le mar. 10 nov. 2020 à 23:45, Mouse a écrit : And, of course, when you're up single-user is, generally, when you're least able to bring other tools to bear or the like, and when you're possibly most likely need to know how to use a command you don'

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Steffen Nurpmeso
Jaromír Doleček wrote in : |Le mar. 10 nov. 2020 à 23:45, Mouse a écrit : |> And, of course, when you're up single-user is, generally, when you're |> least able to bring other tools to bear or the like, and when you're |> possibly most likely need to know how to use a command you don't use |

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
On 11.11.2020 00:16, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Kamil Rytarowski writes: > >> I am surprised that the proposal to remove MK${FOO} is read as removal >> of the Makefile conditionals and keep ${FOO} in the base. With that >> bizarre interpretation the whole proposal renders into useless idea. >> >> I

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Greg Troxel
Kamil Rytarowski writes: > I wish good luck finding user-base/target-audience (if you like, in any > age) that relies on the slowest of slow hardware and cannot use anything > else to study the system documentation. You are missing the other larger point. It may well be that catpages should g

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Mouse
[...single-user...man(1) fails EROFS...] >>> OK, I see here a suggestion that in the year 2020, installed >>> catpages save the day as the only way how to get a formatted >>> manpage for publicly available operating system while in >>> single-user without a read-write /tmp. Only way? No, of

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Kamil Rytarowski
On 11.11.2020 01:18, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Kamil Rytarowski writes: > >> I wish good luck finding user-base/target-audience (if you like, in any >> age) that relies on the slowest of slow hardware and cannot use anything >> else to study the system documentation. > > You are missing the other

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Christian Groessler
On 11/11/20 12:49 AM, Christian Groessler wrote: On 11/11/20 12:17 AM, Jaromír Doleček wrote: Le mar. 10 nov. 2020 à 23:45, Mouse a écrit : And, of course, when you're up single-user is, generally, when you're least able to bring other tools to bear or the like, and when you're possibly most

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread John Nemeth
On Nov 10, 19:28, Kamil Rytarowski wrote: } On 10.11.2020 12:59, Robert Elz wrote: } > Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 11:14:12 +0100 } > From:Kamil Rytarowski } > Message-ID: } > } > | If you still can find any man-page that is unsupported by mandoc, please } > | let me k

Re: Proposal to remove catman(8)

2020-11-10 Thread Valery Ushakov
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 23:31:12 +0100, Kamil Rytarowski wrote: > On 10.11.2020 23:04, Robert Elz wrote: > > Date:Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:28:41 +0100 > > From:Kamil Rytarowski > > Message-ID: > > So you just confirmed to have a lot of opinions and just started to > (re)l