Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-03-08 Thread Manuel Wiesinger
However, a number of students have tried in the past and failed, so it may not be an entirely good idea. You are right, it is simply too much effort. My lecturer, too, said that this is overkill. I'll read into ext2/3 and begin with a part, which I can use for my thesis. Anyhow, I'll use NetBSD

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-03-05 Thread Thor Lancelot Simon
On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 01:12:43PM -0600, David Young wrote: > On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 06:14:04AM +, David Holland wrote: > > The problem with that scheme is that you rewrite everything to the > > flash over and over again anytime something changes, which is going to > > generate vastly more wr

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-03-05 Thread David Young
On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 06:14:04AM +, David Holland wrote: > The problem with that scheme is that you rewrite everything to the > flash over and over again anytime something changes, which is going to > generate vastly more write cycles than just using a normal fs. This scheme doesn't write an

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-03-04 Thread David Holland
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 06:45:41PM -0600, David Young wrote: > > > Oh, my mistake, since there was concern about filesystem type I > > > thought you were talking about raw flash, but apparently CompactFlash > > > is not raw flash, same as USB sticks aren't. > > > > > > In that case, just use

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-03-04 Thread David Holland
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 02:15:12AM +, Christos Zoulas wrote: >> An attractive alternative, is the ext3 journaling feature. It seems to >> be an appropriate amount of work, even more interesting and much more >> useful. >> >> Is there anybody already working on it? > > No, I don't thi

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-29 Thread David Young
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:04:01PM -0500, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:45:32AM +, David Holland wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:20:18PM +, David Holland wrote: > > > > > Is CHFS really suitable for CompactFlash? Is LFS even usable? > > > > > > > > No >

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-28 Thread Adam Hamsik
On Feb,Wednesday 29 2012, at 1:02 AM, Manuel Wiesinger wrote: > >> A DRDB-like functionality is something we need. It could even be a >> gsoc project ... > I thought about that too. I decided that gsoc + the thesis is too much. > I'm to busy to have to start in April, and it's impossible to stic

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-28 Thread Manuel Wiesinger
A DRDB-like functionality is something we need. It could even be a gsoc project ... I thought about that too. I decided that gsoc + the thesis is too much. I'm to busy to have to start in April, and it's impossible to stick to the given deadlines. Thank you anyway! Manuel

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-28 Thread Manuel Wiesinger
I can help with both zfs and ext3. If requirement for your thesis is to design and implement something new then implementing DRBD like network raid on top of device-mapper would be amazing. [1], [2] It is not required to do something new (awkward, I know). But there is no reason, not to do so. DR

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-28 Thread Adam Hamsik
On Feb,Tuesday 28 2012, at 9:29 AM, Manuel Bouyer wrote: > On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 08:12:03AM +0100, Adam Hamsik wrote: >> I can help with both zfs and ext3. If requirement for your thesis is to >> design and implement something new then implementing DRBD like network raid >> on top of device-m

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-28 Thread Manuel Bouyer
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 08:12:03AM +0100, Adam Hamsik wrote: > I can help with both zfs and ext3. If requirement for your thesis is to > design and implement something new then implementing DRBD like network raid > on top of device-mapper would be amazing. [1], [2] A DRDB-like functionality is

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-27 Thread Manuel Wiesinger
No, I don't think anyone is. Even better, how about getting zfs in a working state? Hrm... I don't have enough experience with zfs to feel confident with it. But I consider it.

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-27 Thread Adam Hamsik
On Feb,Tuesday 28 2012, at 3:15 AM, Christos Zoulas wrote: > In article <4f4c09c6.3040...@bsdstammtisch.at>, > Manuel Wiesinger wrote: >> As it seems, implementing the snapshot feature does not really pay off. >> Other projects seem to be much more rewarding for me. >> >> An attractive altern

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-27 Thread Christos Zoulas
In article <4f4c09c6.3040...@bsdstammtisch.at>, Manuel Wiesinger wrote: >As it seems, implementing the snapshot feature does not really pay off. >Other projects seem to be much more rewarding for me. > >An attractive alternative, is the ext3 journaling feature. It seems to >be an appropriate am

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-27 Thread Manuel Wiesinger
As it seems, implementing the snapshot feature does not really pay off. Other projects seem to be much more rewarding for me. An attractive alternative, is the ext3 journaling feature. It seems to be an appropriate amount of work, even more interesting and much more useful. Is there anybody

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-24 Thread David Holland
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 08:24:59AM +, David Laight wrote: > > Oh, my mistake, since there was concern about filesystem type I > > thought you were talking about raw flash, but apparently CompactFlash > > is not raw flash, same as USB sticks aren't. > > OTOH I've seen a CF card with comple

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-24 Thread David Laight
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:45:32AM +, David Holland wrote: > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:20:18PM +, David Holland wrote: > > > > Is CHFS really suitable for CompactFlash? Is LFS even usable? > > > > > > No > > > > I thought the whole point of chfs was to be able to operate on raw >

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-24 Thread Jonathan Stone
I think you mean "halves the write rate". --- On Thu, 2/23/12, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: From: Thor Lancelot Simon Subject: Re: Snapshots in tmpfs To: "David Holland" Cc: tech-kern@netbsd.org Date: Thursday, February 23, 2012, 5:04 PM On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:45:32AM

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread David Holland
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:04:01PM -0500, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > > > > > Is CHFS really suitable for CompactFlash? Is LFS even usable? > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > I thought the whole point of chfs was to be able to operate on raw > > > flash devices that don't have their own flas

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread Thor Lancelot Simon
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 12:45:32AM +, David Holland wrote: > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:20:18PM +, David Holland wrote: > > > > Is CHFS really suitable for CompactFlash? Is LFS even usable? > > > > > > No > > > > I thought the whole point of chfs was to be able to operate on raw >

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread David Holland
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:20:18PM +, David Holland wrote: > > > Is CHFS really suitable for CompactFlash? Is LFS even usable? > > > > No > > I thought the whole point of chfs was to be able to operate on raw > flash devices that don't have their own flash translation layer. Oh, my m

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread David Holland
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 08:07:50PM +0100, Adam Hoka wrote: > > Is CHFS really suitable for CompactFlash? Is LFS even usable? > > No I thought the whole point of chfs was to be able to operate on raw flash devices that don't have their own flash translation layer. > and no. Do you have any

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread J. Hannken-Illjes
On Feb 22, 2012, at 1:52 PM, Martin Husemann wrote: > Note that we already have file system snapshots for ffs file systems, > see fss(4). They are used for backup purposes (atomically create a snapshot, > while the file system is busy, then backup the now quiet snapshot) - among > others. Right -

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread Adam Hoka
On 2/23/2012 7:34 PM, David Young wrote: > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 07:58:11AM +, David Holland wrote: >> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 08:17:15AM -0600, David Young wrote: >> > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 01:42:45PM +0100, Manuel Wiesinger wrote: >> > > *) >> > > What is it good for? The only practica

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-23 Thread David Young
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 07:58:11AM +, David Holland wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 08:17:15AM -0600, David Young wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 01:42:45PM +0100, Manuel Wiesinger wrote: > > > *) > > > What is it good for? The only practical use I can imagine are > > > backups on thin

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-22 Thread David Holland
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 08:17:15AM -0600, David Young wrote: > On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 01:42:45PM +0100, Manuel Wiesinger wrote: > > *) > > What is it good for? The only practical use I can imagine are > > backups on thin clients, which operate without a hard disk. But this > > is clearly far-

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-22 Thread David Young
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 01:42:45PM +0100, Manuel Wiesinger wrote: > *) > What is it good for? The only practical use I can imagine are > backups on thin clients, which operate without a hard disk. But this > is clearly far-fetched, in my eyes. It's good for writing checkpoints of a tmpfs to non-vo

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-22 Thread Greg Troxel
Another possible thing to do (instead) would be to look at Coda, and consider something like porting Coda to use FUSE instead of a homegrown (pre-FUSE, to be fair) kernel module. A bigger challenge is to separate the write-back caching from the upstream server protocol, so that one could use some

Re: Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-22 Thread Martin Husemann
Note that we already have file system snapshots for ffs file systems, see fss(4). They are used for backup purposes (atomically create a snapshot, while the file system is busy, then backup the now quiet snapshot) - among others. > *) > What is it good for? The only practical use I can imagine are

Snapshots in tmpfs

2012-02-22 Thread Manuel Wiesinger
Hi folks, when stumbling around in the wiki for interesting topics for my bachelor thesis I found this entry: http://wiki.netbsd.org/projects/project/tmpfs-snapshot I consider to work on that this summer. What I've done so far: *) spoke to a lecturer who is very interested in this topic and