Re: [Tagging] source:maxspeed vs. maxspeed:type

2013-02-26 Thread Richard Mann
My impression is that a lot of the source:maxspeed were added by a single user in an armchair edit. So its prevalence is not really an indicator of anything. On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Jason Cunningham wrote: > On 22 February 2013 16:38, Martin Vonwald wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Recently the

Re: [Tagging] Historic huts

2013-03-27 Thread Richard Mann
The English/Scottish word for it is "bothy". But it might be better to use something a bit more internationally-intelligible. On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Volker Schmidt wrote: > What about: > amenity=shelter > historic=alpine_hut > ruins=yes (if appropriate) > > Volker > (Padova, Italy) >

Re: [Tagging] Mismatched Level of Detail in highways vs. other elements

2013-04-07 Thread Richard Mann
You can always make a rendering with the streets drawn wider at zoom 18. That would solve most of the problems. Mapping all the street as a series of parallel lines or areas will just make a large mess of data that is a pain to decipher. It only really adds value at very high zoom, and it isn't a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - More Consistency in Railway Tagging

2013-04-16 Thread Richard Mann
The German use of railway=light_rail for S-Bahn is a bit peculiar, since it is generally operated with "heavy" rail equipment (often loco&coaches), to mainline signalling standards (which tend to be defined in terms of the stopping distance for a heavy freight train), and with heavy rail structures

Re: [Tagging] Really big junction=roundabout

2013-06-28 Thread Richard Mann
It's more like what we in the UK would call a gyratory (or simply a one way system) On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Elliott Plack wrote: > Hello OSM friends. Another member of the community asked if I think that a > circulator road around a large athletics facility (RFK Stadium in Wash. DC) > w

Re: [Tagging] foot=yes or bicycle=yes on track without other limitations?

2013-07-10 Thread Richard Mann
If you add bicycle=yes, they render differently in opencyclemap (not saying that's a good thing, just an observation). It seems to be used to imply that it's reasonably passable by bike, and nobody seems to object. Richard On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Maarten Deen wrote: > Is there a deepe

Re: [Tagging] schools

2009-10-14 Thread Richard Mann
I think I'd prefer school:type rather than school:status, and I'd prpbably separate out the denominations to another tag. And please avoid that mess of underscores in c_of_e - a recipe for typos if ever I saw one. Richard On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 8:30 PM, David Earl wrote: > Because it is likely

Re: [Tagging] tagging the multipolygon model (was landuse and military)

2009-10-16 Thread Richard Mann
Rather than having a bot go round making the data more complicated (and in the case of very large lakes with lots of islands, and ponds on those islands, it would be very, very complicated), surely it is better to have a table available somewhere for people to go look up whether a polygon has multi

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] NY Bicycle Routes

2009-11-02 Thread Richard Mann
lcn = local cycle network (used in some countries, notably Belgium and the Netherlands, for circular tours, in other countries for fairly short-distance routes), rendered DARK blue rcn= regional cycle network (used for a "node" network in the Netherlands, used for various sub-national routes in ot

Re: [Tagging] How to tag un-named roundabout?

2009-11-20 Thread Richard Mann
I'd tend to agree that noname=yes is the wrong approach, but maybe there should be something like roundabout=yes, since that is positively useful information. Richard On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Pieren wrote: > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Paul Johnson > wrote: > > > noname=yes > >

Re: [Tagging] How to tag un-named roundabout?

2009-11-20 Thread Richard Mann
ion=roundabout isn't enough? > > Bye > Giuliano > > > Richard Mann ha scritto: > > I'd tend to agree that noname=yes is the wrong approach, but maybe there > should be something like roundabout=yes, since that is positively useful > information. > Rich

Re: [Tagging] shared driveways (was How to tag un-named roundabout?)

2009-11-20 Thread Richard Mann
You maybe ain't going to like this, but the usual distinction in the UK is that residentials are (typically) 6m+ wide and have pavements/sidewalks, whereas service is for urban roads which don't have pavements/sidewalks. Richrd On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Anthony wrote: > On Fri, Nov 20, 2

Re: [Tagging] tagging Greenways (was: Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vsfootwayvs cycleway vs...))

2009-12-03 Thread Richard Mann
These short-distance signposted routes can be tagged as lcn (local cycle network) relations. I'd prefer there to be a distinction between these (which I think of as leisure/tourist routes and would call "tcn") and utility routes into a town centre, but there isn't a distinction at the moment (and

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-03 Thread Richard Mann
On public land you can usually push a bike and be treated as a pedestrian, but that's not always the case on private land (eg the University Parks in Oxford) - bicycles are banned altogether. So there is a distinction, but it can probably be achieved by using bicycle=no for situations where riding

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-03 Thread Richard Mann
Access=private means that the rules are uncertain - so don't bank on being able to even push a bike. Richard On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Pieren wrote: > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 3:00 PM, James Livingston wrote: > >> So there is a distinction, but it can probably be achieved by using > bicycl

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-04 Thread Richard Mann
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Anthony wrote: > with_stroller=no, etc. > British English is "pushchair". Baby buggy may be more international, but one underscore is more than enough. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://li

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-04 Thread Richard Mann
The problem is when some people use spaces and some underscores. Tagwatch can't tell them apart. Richard On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Anthony wrote: > On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Richard Mann > wrote: > > but one underscore is more than enough. > > One of

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-06 Thread Richard Mann
In the UK the distinction between lane and track is essentially that tracks are not part of the road, so you are allowed to travel in the "wrong" direction, albeit that there's a bit of an accident problem when crossing side roads :( So I think of the Danish lanes/tracks as a kerb-separated lane, w

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-07 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: > Regarding the "kerb" vs. "curb" question, the dictionary tells me that > "kerb" is british english, whereas "curb" is international english. I think > we want to stick with international english, right? > I think the norm is to use Britis

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-07 Thread Richard Mann
The problem is that highway=footway implies (in some people's eyes) that bicycle=no, and when the honest truth is that it's private land and the owner doesn't seem to care, you need to put something to modify the default. bicycle=whatever seems to capture it well, but bicycle=tolerated or bicycle

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-07 Thread Richard Mann
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Richard Mann > > > > I'm tending towards cycleway=lane+segregated=kerb (or cycleway=track if > it's > > two-way) > > > > Not sure that cycleway=lane is best here since the cycleway is not > part of the car road. There

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-07 Thread Richard Mann
". Richard On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:03 PM, Elena of Valhalla wrote: > On 12/7/09, Richard Mann wrote: > > The problem is that highway=footway implies (in some people's eyes) that > > bicycle=no, and when the honest truth is that it's private land and the > &

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-07 Thread Richard Mann
That a path is in common use by bicycles is often pretty easy to establish (even in places with much less bike traffic than round here), with no real question that re-survey would see similar tyre-tracks. The problem is not verifiability, it's how you record what you can see. Richard On Mon, Dec

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-07 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Roy Wallace wrote: > you're suggesting how to tag that a path is "commonly > used" by bicycles - there isn't a tag for that! I'm only about a year into trying to find a decent answer to this question (how to tag informal bike paths). I know there isn't a tag for

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-08 Thread Richard Mann
I think Steve meant "adjacent to the roadway such that you can move onto/across the roadway at your convenience". This adjacency is important in jurisdictions where cyclists are allowed to do this (ie where the use of the lane/track is optional), and where there are a significant prevalence of side

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-08 Thread Richard Mann
Are we edging towards: bicycle=yes|no|private|permissive|unknown - legal status designation=* - your local (national) name for the legal status bicycle:defacto=prevented|forbidden|tolerated|discouraged|accepted|supported|established - the apparent practical status, which you can use or not use,

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-08 Thread Richard Mann
Could you point us to an example, please? Richard On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Morten Kjeldgaard wrote: > > On 08/12/2009, at 11.17, Steve Bennett wrote: > > > Given this, it would be fair to say that the "meaning" of > > cycleway=track is a two-way copenhagen-style bike lane. > > Incidental

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-08 Thread Richard Mann
While we're about it, there's a few other potential values for cycleway (for interest mainly): cycleway=buslane (shared with buses) cycleway=filterlane (explicitly shared with nearside-turning traffic) cycleway=tight (nearside lane is shared with traffic and is <3.1m wide cycleway=spacious (nearsi

Re: [Tagging] More cycleway=* values needed

2009-12-09 Thread Richard Mann
tight/spacious/critical are terms from the Dutch guidance on assessing/adapting roads for cycling, and endorsed by UK guidance (Type "LTN208" into your favourite search engine if interested) Richard On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:5

Re: [Tagging] bicycle=no

2009-12-09 Thread Richard Mann
Steve - dip your toe in the Smoothness debate on the wiki, and recoil with horror that people have devoted so much time to arguing over suitability measures. You can get a basic classification of physical attributes using the highway tag (especially when you know that 99% of the use of "path" is f

Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?

2009-12-11 Thread Richard Mann
If it's wide and not explicitly banned to cars then it's highway=track. If it looks better than ropey, give it a tracktype. Richard On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Roy Wallace wrote: > If I trace (from aerial imagery) a path that I'm pretty sure would be > great to ride on, and that appears to

Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?

2009-12-12 Thread Richard Mann
There's an awful lot of cycleways already, so your definition has to recognise that. The argument in Europe is whether cycleways are by default shared (UK / Dutch norm), or by default single-use (the German position). There's no real argument over the physical (minimal obstructions for road bikes /

Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?

2009-12-12 Thread Richard Mann
at 9:01 AM, Liz wrote: > On Sat, 12 Dec 2009, Richard Mann wrote: > > There's an awful lot of cycleways already, so your definition has to > > recognise that. > I assume that something which is marked as a cycleway really is one > > > The argument in Europe is wheth

Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledgeof the law?

2009-12-14 Thread Richard Mann
I really wouldn't try to do something massively different from what has gone before. Instead it's probably better to use fewer tags more simply, and avoid using tags in situations & for meanings that are unclear/disputed. highway=path for rough paths highway=footway for paved paths bicycle=yes if

Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledgeof the law?

2009-12-14 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Roy Wallace wrote: > > highway=path for rough paths > > highway=footway for paved paths > But how would you expect this to solve the current problem? Do you > think it's just a matter of tweaking some wiki definitions? > > Also, with the above proposed definitions

Re: [Tagging] Tagging highway=cycleway without explicit knowledge of the law?

2009-12-18 Thread Richard Mann
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Andre Engels wrote: > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Dave F. wrote: > >> In other words, whenever I see a path somewhere, I should say nothing > >> about who it is for? Just let the user of the map or the builder of > >> the mapping software decide? That may be

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-05 Thread Richard Mann
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Nop wrote: > Real cycleways with official signs are an obstacle to me that I need to > avoid. I know German cyclists are fast, but treating cycleways like motorways is ridiculous :) But seriously, you have a point - usability by bikes should be on a separate tag

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-05 Thread Richard Mann
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 11:04 AM, Nop wrote: > Hi! > > Am 05.01.2010 11:45, schrieb Richard Mann: > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Nop > <mailto:ekkeh...@gmx.de>> wrote: > > > > Real cycleways with official signs are an obstacle to me that I need &g

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-05 Thread Richard Mann
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Nop wrote: > My point is: There is an important difference between > - a real, official cycleway (prohibited by law for others) > - some way that looks like it was pretty much suitable for cycling > > About like the difference between > - a road marked as one-way

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-05 Thread Richard Mann
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 5:34 PM, Alex Mauer wrote: > highway=path+access=no+bicycle=designated for the former and > highway=path+bicycle=yes for the latter. > Each to their own, but I'd prefer: highway=cycleway+designation=official_cycleway (or whatever) (for those officially signposted) and highw

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-05 Thread Richard Mann
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > within the US, i am increasingly seeing things that might once have just > been called bike paths > that are now designated as multi use trails, e.g. the Mohawk Hudson Bike > Path here in Albany > has become the Mohawk-Hudson Bike-Hike Trail

Re: [Tagging] Proposed definition for cycleways (was Re: bicycle=no)

2010-01-08 Thread Richard Mann
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Peteris Krisjanis wrote: > >> In bare bones basic, Steve, are you for or against using "highway = >> cycleway" for officially marked cycleways only? That's what I would >> like to understand :) >> >> > I'm "

Re: [Tagging] Dutch cafes (was: What's a power=station?)

2010-01-20 Thread Richard Mann
At a bar, you stand up, at a cafe you sit down, at a pub you fall over :) Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] A shop selling fish and seafood

2010-04-30 Thread Richard Mann
poissonerie, surely? On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: > "Fishmonger" has a slight advantage in that it translates into French as > Poissionerie, German as Fischhändler, Italian as Pescivendolo, and so on. ___ Tagging mailing lis

Re: [Tagging] Cleaning up

2010-05-05 Thread Richard Mann
Re sidewalks and cycle tracks. Best bet is to put them on both the road (footway=yes; cycleway=track) AND as separate ways (maybe with a tag like micromapping=yes to boot); there's not going to be agreement any time soon on which is preferable. Richard On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:59 PM, John Smith

Re: [Tagging] Cleaning up

2010-05-05 Thread Richard Mann
If the sidewalks are next to the road, and in Europe, you can probably rely on people assuming them by default (unless you advise otherwise). Clearly in other places, it may be necessary to tag them explicitly. Richard On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Tyler Gunn wrote: > > On Wed, 5 May 2010 17:

Re: [Tagging] Cleaning up

2010-05-06 Thread Richard Mann
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:45 AM, Tyler Gunn wrote: > I think this is a HUGE improvement over what Google Maps shows: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.82372&lon=-97.20104&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF > > Tyler > Yup, the parking lots give you a real feel for the place. Richard __

Re: [Tagging] tagging for discount stores in US

2010-05-06 Thread Richard Mann
In the UK, they'd almost certainly be tagged as supermarkets, since our stores tend to have one product area dominant (eg groceries). Department stores are large shops with lots of different departments selling lots of different things from lots of different counters, but the staff (and the tills)

Re: [Tagging] differences on wiki about roles of relation route.

2010-06-08 Thread Richard Mann
the :number roles are obsolete (you should order the relation members instead - probably using JOSM) The English definition of the forward/backward roles is correct. If the relation is one-way, and the direction of the way is the same, then use "forward". If the direction of the way is opposite, u

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-17 Thread Richard Mann
Nathan - there's some form of setting in your email account that means that every time you reply to a thread we see a new thread starting (dropping the Re: prefix, maybe?). This makes it very hard to follow the thread, as the emails get out of order. On the specific example, in the UK these would

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-17 Thread Richard Mann
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Richard Mann > wrote: >> On the specific example, in the UK these would be tertiarys: an >> ordinary street that serves a "through" or within-city distribution >>

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-18 Thread Richard Mann
The first one is motorway_link, the second primary (because it's two-way), the third primary_link, the fourth could be just about anything from trunk to service. Mapnik makes a mess if a link intersects a service, but that's cos Mapnik renders a trunk_link under a service, which is wrong. The simpl

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-18 Thread Richard Mann
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: >> The simplest is probably to call the fourth >> a trunk with a note that there's a case for it being a trunk_link, but >> that trunk is more renderer-proof. > > That seems incorrect, and hence tagging (incorrectly) for the > renderer. Whe

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-18 Thread Richard Mann
s at the bottom, which doesn't work. Richard On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:11 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/6/18 Richard Mann : >> The first one is motorway_link, the second primary (because it's >> two-way), the third primary_link, the fourth could be just about >

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-27 Thread Richard Mann
If you say "football" in en-GB then you mean the game run by the Football Association in England, and by FIFA internationally. If you say "Rugby", you mean whichever of the two codes is dominant in your part of the country / social circle (and probably Rugby Union by default). At least the ball's t

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-27 Thread Richard Mann
In Europe soccer is winning by a factor of about 12:1, but the 2700 "football"s had probably better be interpreted as soccer in the absence of other evidence. Richard On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Andre Engels wrote: > In my opinion, football being multi-interpretable, the name should not > b

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Richard Mann
The only thing missing on the wiki, as far as I could see, was something sensible for American Football. It is not sensible to use "football" for American Football, since the most likely meaning if someone tags sport=football (in spite of the wiki advice not to) is that they mean Association Footba

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-28 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:56 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 28 June 2010 19:34, Richard Mann > wrote: >> "football" for American Football, since the most likely meaning if >> someone tags sport=football (in spite of the wiki advice not to) is >> that they mean As

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-29 Thread Richard Mann
The proper thing would be to render an egg for american_football, and nothing for sport=football. If you render for yourself, set sport=football to whatever you like. On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 12:31 PM, pavithran wrote: > On 28 June 2010 15:24, John Smith wrote: >> And then add a page for sport=f

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-29 Thread Richard Mann
In Great Britain it's soccer 950, football 600, association_football nil By all means add association_football as an additional option (as a synonym for soccer for those that prefer it), but there's no need to try to deprecate soccer. Richard On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Jason Cunningham wr

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-29 Thread Richard Mann
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 4:59 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 30 June 2010 01:51, Richard Mann > wrote: >> In Great Britain it's soccer 950, football 600, association_football nil >> >> By all means add association_football as an additional option (as a >> synonym

Re: [Tagging] football or soccer ?

2010-06-30 Thread Richard Mann
Perhaps the word "foot" in a little arc pointing up, with the word "ball" in a little arc pointing down :) On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Steve Doerr wrote: > Sounds like we need a rendering image that combines a round and an oval ball > in some way and use this for any grounds that are tagged

Re: [Tagging] Zone 30 (maxspeed)

2010-07-06 Thread Richard Mann
The fashion in the UK is now to impose 20mph speed limits on each and every street, rather than create zones with entries/exits. It amounts to much the same thing in the end, but it means that we simply put: maxspeed=20 mph+maxspeed:note=Oxford 20 mph zone (the whole city is a 20mph zone except f

Re: [Tagging] Zone 30 (maxspeed)

2010-07-06 Thread Richard Mann
On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 6:01 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/7/6 Richard Mann : > >> maxspeed=20 mph+maxspeed:note=Oxford 20 mph zone > > > I'd suggest to use source:maxspeed instead of note, as I think it is > already widely used and documented in the wiki: &g

Re: [Tagging] Greenery adjacent to roads

2010-07-13 Thread Richard Mann
There are 6695 landuse=grass in the UK. They're not turf farms. surface=grass is for highways On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: >  On 13/07/2010 07:37, char...@cferrero.net wrote: >> >> How might I go about tagging the often quite extensive green stretches of >> land to t

Re: [Tagging] Greenery adjacent to roads

2010-07-13 Thread Richard Mann
surface=grass 3263 occurrences, 3121 with a highway tag in the UK Feel free to use surface=grass for landcover if you want to. But people are more likely to use your data if you use landuse=grass. Richard On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 12:38 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 13 July 2010 20:47, Richard M

Re: [Tagging] RFC on two proposals: Motorway indication; Expressway indication

2010-07-15 Thread Richard Mann
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 7:11 AM, Martin Simon wrote: > I think a combination of motorroad=* and grade_seperated=* would do grade_separated please (ie with an "a" in the middle) Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.op

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-15 Thread Richard Mann
1300 uses worldwide, against 1.9m for surface= So a wiki entry that says maybe you should consider using surface=paved/unpaved instead might be sensible Richard On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:16 PM, John Smith wrote: > I noticed someone just added paved=yes/no to the wiki, is this needed? > > Won't

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-15 Thread Richard Mann
Can't find it on the wiki - do you have a ref? Richard On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 10:30 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 16 July 2010 07:26, Richard Mann > wrote: >> 1300 uses worldwide, against 1.9m for surface= >> >> So a wiki entry that says maybe you should consider u

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Richard Mann
I think surface started as a binary paved/unpaved for roads (with paved assumed by default, and paved meaning tarmac), and has got extended to cover cobbled roads, and (subsequently) as a way of adding more info for tracks/paths. So for most purposes, the principal distinction is between paved and

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Richard Mann
I've updated the wiki page to try to explain it more clearly. I've included Martin's paved=yes flag (though personally, I'd probably just make it clear in the table that some values such as concrete should be treated as paved) Richard ___ Tagging mailin

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Richard Mann
I don't think we're reaching any consensus that key:paved is an idea to be positively recommended, so I think it's probably best to record it in the wiki as "some people do this". I think the wiki would also benefit from a few notes saying which values should be treated as paved (in the sense of d

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Richard Mann
Layers don't work when there are area/way conflicts, because the norm for rendering is to draw areas first then ways on top. So you have to have a flag that says "this way isn't really on top". We have a perfectly adequate flag for this function (tunnel=yes), but people objected to using that for t

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Richard Mann
How would you like it rendered? Covered-as-in-a-shopping-mall is quite different to covered-as-in-protected-from-the-rain. The real problem is that it's scope is too broad. Richard On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:11 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/7/20 Richard Mann : >> Layers d

Re: [Tagging] covered definition in the wiki

2010-07-20 Thread Richard Mann
So something like this: http://www.classiccarports.com/images/galleries/walkways/covered-walkway-2.jpg should be rendered the same way as a tunnel? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
One of the things Dave Earl mentioned in his talk about rendering was the gaps-in-casings you sometimes get at bridges. What I've ended up doing is 1) rendering casings in layer (not underneath everything like Mapnik) 2) putting in a flag to identify ways that join ways of different layer, with a

Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
Most vineyards have something similar, though not always so heavily marketed, so I think you need to find a term that's more international. Perhaps tourism=vineyard_shop or just shop=vineyard. Richard On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:15 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 26 July 2010 10:44, John F. Eldredge w

Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
winery: no such word in en_gb, we just use vineyard for the whole operation (though of course we don't do these things on the same scale as Australia). Unless you're going to distinguish between shop=winery and shop=vineyard, I'd use the more generic term in the tagging system. Richard __

Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
Most of these call themselves vineyards http://www.englishwineproducers.com/scvineyard.htm On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Liz wrote: > can you provide a definition of this use of the word? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://l

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Pieren wrote: > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Richard Mann > wrote: >> >> Good idea, or just a local fix? >> >> Richard >> > > Personally, I think the easiest to fix many issues would be to draw a > specific po

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
Dave F (et al), Renderers draw roads (typically) by drawing a wide grey line on each segment, a grey circle at each node, then a narrower (say) white line on each segment, and a white circle at each node. All you see of the grey is a thin line on each side of the white line: this is the casing. Th

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Colin Smale wrote: >  Shouldn't the layer_change be on the common point, not a way? A way > (usually) has two ends, so putting the tag on a way will not indicate at > which end of the way the layer change takes place. But then it degenerates > to two (or more) conn

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Dave F. wrote: > So your saying to save the renders time, the data collectors have to waste > time adding new tags? There was me thinking this was a project where we each did a bit for mutual benefit. Richard ___ Taggi

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:56 PM, Dave F. wrote: >  On 26/07/2010 14:07, Richard Mann wrote: >>  If you draw the >> grey in the correct layer, then you get little semi-circular arcs of >> grey at the end of bridges (if they are layer=1). > > I've never noticed th

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-26 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 7:17 PM, Cartinus wrote: > Yes, but human mapping time is a far more scarce resource then computer > working time. So let the computer fix it. Preprocess! Computer working time is rarely the limiting resource (otherwise we'd all have been out of a job long ago). The advan

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-27 Thread Richard Mann
Pre-processing isn't really an option for Kosmos, Maperitive, MapCSS/Halcyon (and judging by the number of rendering tags it spawns) Osmarender. Rendering is not something that only the gods do, there are tools arriving that will make it a lot lot easier to render. When these people render, they w

Re: [Tagging] Bridges and layers

2010-07-28 Thread Richard Mann
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:27 AM, James Livingston wrote: > Someone mentioned > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Bridges_and_Tunnels > up-thread, is there anything it doesn't cover? I've been using it for over a > year, although I haven't mapped any really crazy scenarios.

Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags

2010-07-29 Thread Richard Mann
Daniel cycleway=shoulder looks like a good idea for those countries that routinely have a wide shoulder on country roads (I've seen them in Ireland; they aren't common in the UK) on urban roads (maybe even rural roads with centre lines), you could do cycleway=tight/critical/spacious, following th

Re: [Tagging] tagging bus stops served by more than one public transportation agency

2010-07-30 Thread Richard Mann
Ed - the proper way to do bus routes is using relations. The operator tag should be on the relation, and should only have one value. This is how we deal with geolocations being part of multiple geographical structures. If you want to add route_ref tags to the bus stops, then just make a single lis

Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags

2010-07-30 Thread Richard Mann
If they form part of a route (which is what I assume is meant by piste cyclable), they should be a route relation. The conventional way of tagging such relations is: type=route route=bicycle network=lcn/rcn/ncn (local/regional/national depending on the scope of the route) {I don't like the use of

Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags

2010-08-04 Thread Richard Mann
I take the cycleway tag to be a statement of how it looks to a middling cyclist: is there a cycle track is there a cycle (or in some places a bus, taxi and cycle) lane is there a shoulder is it uncomfortably narrow or quite wide has someone put a series of markings in the gutter, to encourage moto

Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags

2010-08-04 Thread Richard Mann
You can drive on some cycle lanes (and walk on some cycle tracks), so I wouldn't advise using exclusivity as a defining criterion for using the cycleway tag myself. But so long as your tagging is clear, it doesn't really matter. Richard On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Daniel Tremblay wrote: > I

Re: [Tagging] other landuse values?

2010-08-15 Thread Richard Mann
On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Sebastian Klein wrote: > from what I understand, landuse is to mark a larger area that has multiple I think it's useful to differentiate/subdivide areas where there are noticeable changes in landuse: don't be too enthusiastic about lumping stuff together. This is

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-09-05 Thread Richard Mann
On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Peter Wendorff wrote: >> The signature? What do you mean? > > Well - I fear, I used the word with one of meanings it has in German - but > probably not in English > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signatur_%28Kartographie%29 > > A "Signatur" - other meanings can be tr

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-08 Thread Richard Mann
Please: someone write a bot to add landmark=probably to every tree in Germany, and stop this debate. If it's a landmark, then it's worth adding a tag to say so. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/li

Re: [Tagging] Railway routes in different directions.

2010-09-23 Thread Richard Mann
The "proper" way to do it is to have separate relations in each direction, probably named for the origin and destination (ie not calling it the up Bristol and the down Bristol, but calling it the Bristol-London and London-Bristol service). Alternatively, put all the ways in one relation and put ro

Re: [Tagging] amenity=ice_cream: approved?

2010-09-27 Thread Richard Mann
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Fast food is simply a style of serving: you go up to the counter and > order. It has nothing to do with the cuisine. > The Italians probably don't like to think of ice-cream as fast food, because that has connotations of high sugar/fat con

Re: [Tagging] What exactly is a greenfield?

2010-10-05 Thread Richard Mann
A greenfield site is one that is currently a field, so it should be tagged as a field until it gets built on. Nothing should ever be tagged "greenfield". A brownfield site is derelict land that was something once, but is now nothing in particular until someone does something with it. A "brownfield

Re: [Tagging] Successful proposal

2010-10-13 Thread Richard Mann
The search box is also a lot faster than opening MapFeatures. Indeed there'd be a case for abolishing MapFeatures (and just making MapFeatures a category). Richard On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:59 AM, SomeoneElse wrote: >  On 13/10/2010 09:30, Lennard wrote: >> >> And how exactly would the craft ta

Re: [Tagging] Country names

2010-10-14 Thread Richard Mann
You can also test for the presence of "name:de" in "name", rather than just equality, so that if name contains (say) French/German/Flemish components, then you use that rather than making your own name (name:de) combination. Richard On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Peter Körner wrote: > Am 14.10

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