Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

W dniu 22.01.2015 19:15, moltonel 3x Combo napisał(a): This has been debated (yet again) on this list not long ago for the "name" key. The usual arguments followed. There are enough proponents of both styles (each with good arguments) that both styles are clearly here to stay (unless maybe the c

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> key[1]=value1 key[2]=value2 > and returning to the semicolon mode on the output again. That would probably help avoid too much regexping. I see your point, but sadly this is not solution. I was always mentioning xxx:yyy scheme as *semantic subkeys*, there no semantic in: key[1] - what does 1 mea

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Or wait, I actually misunderstood you, my point is still valid. Did you mean color[1]=yellow? color[2]=red? But again, how do you query then? Query for red? color[*]=red? Regexes again. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.ope

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Никита wrote: > But again, how do you query then? Query for red? color[*]=red? Regexes > again. He is representing an array where [1] is the first position. There is no need for regexes. ___ Tagging mailing list Taggin

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Agree, there no regexes at first. But is it possible to query this tagging scheme? Lets say you have color[1]=purple color[2]=orange color[3]=green How do you query for green in overpass? In JOSM? And what if for another object you will have different set of tags with different order? color[1]=bl

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Никита wrote: > Agree, there no regexes at first. But is it possible to query this tagging > scheme? Lets say you have > color[1]=purple > color[2]=orange > color[3]=green > > How do you query for green in overpass? In JOSM? What he said: = I also think tool

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> So the data in OSM is still "color=purple;orange;green" This data will be untranslated for iD users. It is freetext without selectbox and prone to errors. *You have to know tags* *when you use this approach*. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale:imba is not displayed directly as mtb:

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 22/01/2015, Charles Basenga Kiyanda wrote: > I have to add fuel to a heated discussion, but in the whole exchange on > whether or not semicolon lists should be allowed/used, the most obvious > example (to me) that requires semicolon lists was not mentionned, > namely: opening hours. That's pro

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 22/01/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > a minor issue with semicolon separated lists: we don't have yet defined how > to escape actual semicolons in values. To me, that is actually a major issue (putting blank fields in the same basket). Defining how litteral semicolons and blank fields shou

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 22/01/2015, Tod Fitch wrote: > With respect objects that have multiple values for a key, the arguments seem > to come down to either: > > 1. key=value1;value2;. . . ,valueN > 2. key:value1=yes + key:value2=yes + . . . + key:valueN=yes 3. key=value > As a programmer I can parse either set usin

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 22/01/2015, fly wrote: > Am 22.01.2015 um 21:32 schrieb Tod Fitch: >> key:1=value1 >> key:2=value2 >> key:3=value3 > > No not at all, this makes it worse. Numbers are way to general and you > gain little. > > : is usualy used for subkeys so key1, key2 would even be better. Subkeys are not alwa

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

While I am no skilled programmer I agree with the next points: (any guru is welcome to disregard my following opinion if he wants to) > Just because one can use a regular expression to grep out a certain meaning > doesn't mean it's a good thing to do and will always work. Regexps are AFAIK quit

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> Also, I think that the subkey separator (':') should be different from > the index separator (let's say '_' although that isn't fully > standardised yet). Because I could concoct an example where "2" is a > subkey rather than an index. Visually for index I would go for "#" or "-" but I don't kno

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> the classic example being the name key. This is bad example. We have many tags with their own semantic: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Key_Variations We don't need name_1, name_2 or name#1 or name#2 keys. > name=* > name#2=* > name#3=* There no point in using indexes in key. You need s

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

I don't understand the insistence in using regexes as some kind of argument against semicolon lists. A semicolon list is an extremely simple pattern. Such a pattern can be easily parsed even WITHOUT regexes. Me and other developers in this thread (Imagic, Friedrich, David, Dmitry, Marc) are tryin

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 1/23/15 10:13 AM, jgpacker wrote: I don't understand the insistence in using regexes as some kind of argument against semicolon lists. A semicolon list is an extremely simple pattern. Such a pattern can be easily parsed even WITHOUT regexes. Me and other developers in this thread (Imagic, F

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Jan 23, 2015, at 7:47 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > On 1/23/15 10:13 AM, jgpacker wrote: >> I don't understand the insistence in using regexes as some kind of argument >> against semicolon lists. >> >> A semicolon list is an extremely simple pattern. >> Such a pattern can be easily parsed even

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

i've removed prior discussion so that this can stand on its own. i admit that the distinction between keys and values is a bit blurry; it would be a fallacy to claim that data goes only in values because that's obviously not completely true. however, i will assert that for key space to be useful

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Tag namespaces already provide a kind of "data structure" facility. IMHO a syntax that is close to the traditional way of representing vectors of structures would be something like this: addr[1]:housenumber=1234 addr[1]:street=Main Street addr[2]:housenumber=7654 addr[2]:street=Elm Avenue All

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 23/01/2015, althio wrote: > Visually for index I would go for "#" or "-" but I don't know if that > is acceptable regarding special characters status. > > name=* > name#2=* > name#3=* I really like using '#' as the index separator. It is sometimes pronounced "number". It hasn't been used befor

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 23/01/2015, Никита wrote: >> the classic example being the name key. > This is bad example. We have many tags with their own semantic: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Key_Variations We don't need > name_1, name_2 or name#1 or name#2 keys. Of course when you can figure out names that

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On 23/01/2015, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: >> name=purple >> name#2=orange >> name#3=green >> >> How do you query for green in overpass? In JOSM? > > josm: name(#\d+)?=green > overpass: I don't know it enough Note that if "key#index=value" becomes commonly used, tools like josm and overpass (and nom

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 22/01/2015, Johan C wrote: > From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novice > users, relations should be avoided whenever possible. And associatedStreet > relations are avoidable. The counter-argument is that a novice is less likely to break the data when updating an a

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 23/01/2015 21:53, moltonel 3x Combo a écrit : Given that relations in general are not going away, the proper solution to the "novices have trouble with relations" problem is not to use less relations but to make relations easyer to edit and better documented. FWIW, I feel there is slow but ste

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

2015-01-23 21:53 GMT+01:00 moltonel 3x Combo : > On 22/01/2015, Johan C wrote: > > From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novice > > users, relations should be avoided whenever possible. And > associatedStreet > > relations are avoidable. > > The counter-argument is that

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 23/01/2015 20:53, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: +1 to all of that ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] New version of the API in the making? WAS Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Where can we find out whether a new version of the API is in the making? One that could contain an explicit area type to replace closed ways and multipolygon relations, so they become more robust, and which could have multivalue fields built-in? Are there even plans to do that? All I hear are murmu

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 6:25 PM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > > How do you query for green in overpass? In JOSM? > > josm: name(#\d+)?=green > overpass: I don't know it enough > is node[~"^name#.*$"~"^Green$"]; close enough? I'm not sure which regular expressions JOSM supports m _

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

It supports the 'java' flavour. It took me a while to figure out how to work with those ;-delimited strings, but once I found this regex worked for my purposes: route_ref="(^|.+;)26(;.+|$)" inview odbl=new I never looked back. As for Nikita's question about how to find an item which is not in the

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : > Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view > relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size > low. From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards > novice users, relations should be avoided whe

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Not me. Oh, that was a rethorical question. Polyglot 2015-01-24 1:07 GMT+01:00 Christian Quest : > > Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : > > Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view > > relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size >

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - Voting - Water tap

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Pieren wrote: > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Kotya Karapetyan > wrote: > > > As of today, a total of 16 votes have been submitted, 11 of them are > > approvals. Since 2 weeks have passed and the required number of votes > > (15) has been reached, I have close

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24/01/2015 11:07 AM, Christian Quest wrote: Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size low. From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novi

[Tagging] Tagging Voting system- time for reform?

On 24/01/2015 11:51 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: ON the subject of man_made=tap On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Pieren > wrote: On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:13 PM, Kotya Karapetyan mailto:kotya.li...@gmail.com>> wrote: > As of today, a total of 16 votes have been

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Voting system- time for reform?

On 1/23/15 8:37 PM, Warin wrote: Yes .. it makes the admin more complex.But it will get some to say something, and get others off the group. Flame away. i do not think it appropriate for the membership of this group to set these sorts of parameters for controlling its membership. it goes aga

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Voting system- time for reform?

> On Jan 24, 2015, at 11:04 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > > On 1/23/15 8:37 PM, Warin wrote: >> >> Yes .. it makes the admin more complex. But it will get some to say >> something, and get others off the group. Flame away. >> > i do not think it appropriate for the membership of this group > to

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

> That object is not part of the result set. Maybe he meant how to find out that an item is missing from the list? Well I don't see how that becomes any easier by moving the values over to the keys. "color:green"!=* in overpass should return values without information about green color or "color:gr

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 6:40 AM, Никита wrote: > Well I don't see how that becomes any easier by moving the values over to > the keys. > "color:green"!=* in overpass should return values without information > about green color or "color:green"="no" will return objects without green > color > But

Re: [Tagging] Wiki Edit War on using/avoiding semicolon lists

Well not perfect solution at the moment, but least I don't need to teach somebody regexes: "color:green"=yes | "color:lightgreen"=yes | "color: bluegreen"=yes | ... "But how this is different from regexes?" you would say. 1. There no regexes at all 2. There should be pages about http://wiki.opens

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 23.01.2015 21:53, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > The counter-argument is that a novice is less likely to break the data > when updating an area that is mapped using associatedStreet. I like > the fact the fact that people need not even be aware of addresses in > order to fix a street name. That's n