Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

2015-01-24 1:07 GMT+01:00 Christian Quest : > > Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : > > Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view > > relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size > > low. From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly t

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 25/01/2015 13:00, Andreas Goss a écrit : Fully borken or not. In my opinion a assiciatedstreet relation that does not include every element is broken. At that point all the advantages are gone. associatedStreet is not multypolygon ! A lack in the outer of a multipolygon is a gap and brake

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 25/01/2015, Andreas Goss wrote: > Fully borken or not. In my opinion a assiciatedstreet relation that does > not include every element is broken. At that point all the advantages > are gone. To me "breaking the relation" would mean that all the addresses it contains are now unusable. In your e

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 25/01/2015, Marc Gemis wrote: > My experience is that it is very hard to place every house in the right > relation before you know the actual address. Especially with corner houses > and in rural areas where the driveways to the farms do not always connect > to the street with the address. > An

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 22/01/2015 16:14, Vincent Pottier a écrit : UK ~9000 PL ~1700 CZ ~ 100 HU ~ 130 SE

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it doesn't do that for relations). I hear rumours it's mainly Germany but it'd be handy to know. Wambacher posted some maps in the Forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

But wat is local in the global context of OSM? It seems that, as far as Belgium is concerned, I'm the only one with an interest to keep using them. I do think they add some value, especially in a bilingual context like in Brussels. But if I'm the only one in the whole (small) country, who am I to

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

It'll be interesting to see how the German community handles this as an excercise for other communities. I think that handling this in a local way is the right move. - Serge On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 8:57 AM, Jo wrote: > > >> Sometimes I remove stuff by accident realize it later and instead of go

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Sometimes I remove stuff by accident realize it later and instead of going > back just replace it, because I did more stuff in that time and don't want > to lose my work. > If you care about preserving the history of that object, you could do the following in JOSM: Create new layer Download data

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Your editor will probably hace displayed a warning at step 1. At the end of the operation, you've got a house missing it street, not a fully broken relation. Most don't. Right now JOSM is the only one I use that does. Especially most mobile editors don't... some just flat out don't even show yo

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 1:17 AM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > and more powerful (preparing a > housenumber survey by armchair-mapping buildings and > associatedStreet). > My experience is that it is very hard to place every house in the right relation before you know the actual address. Especially

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24/01/2015, Andreas Goss wrote: > I really don't get this. If you are able to add house numbers, why would > you be likely to fuck up street names? If at all seeing addr:street when > on the ground is good, because you can be sure it's you are adding it to > the right building and can also fix

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24/01/2015, Tobias Knerr wrote: > On 24.01.2015 13:12, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: >> Recomended isn't mandatory. The name tag of associatedStreet is only >> of use to mappers (to find the relation in the editor), not consumers. > > Not mandatory, but still used in 93.20% of relations. Yes. > So

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24/01/2015, Andreas Goss wrote: >> A novice user will hardly break an associatedStreet relation > > Remove house. Replace with new outline at the same place. Add tags > again. Done. associatedStreet relation broken. Your editor will probably hace displayed a warning at step 1. At the end of th

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24.01.2015 13:12, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > Recomended isn't mandatory. The name tag of associatedStreet is only > of use to mappers (to find the relation in the editor), not consumers. Not mandatory, but still used in 93.20% of relations. So ignoring the relation is not practically feasible.

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24/01/2015, Tobias Knerr wrote: > On 23.01.2015 21:53, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: >> The counter-argument is that a novice is less likely to break the data >> when updating an area that is mapped using associatedStreet. I like >> the fact the fact that people need not even be aware of addresses i

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

A novice user will hardly break an associatedStreet relation Remove house. Replace with new outline at the same place. Add tags again. Done. associatedStreet relation broken. __ openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:AndiG88‎ _

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

The counter-argument is that a novice is less likely to break the data when updating an area that is mapped using associatedStreet. I like the fact the fact that people need not even be aware of addresses in order to fix a street name. I disagree. Awareness is exactly what you need. I destroyed

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 23.01.2015 21:53, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > The counter-argument is that a novice is less likely to break the data > when updating an area that is mapped using associatedStreet. I like > the fact the fact that people need not even be aware of addresses in > order to fix a street name. That's n

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 24/01/2015 11:07 AM, Christian Quest wrote: Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size low. From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novi

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Not me. Oh, that was a rethorical question. Polyglot 2015-01-24 1:07 GMT+01:00 Christian Quest : > > Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : > > Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view > > relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size >

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 22/01/2015 22:49, Johan C a écrit : > Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view > relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size > low. From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards > novice users, relations should be avoided whe

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 23/01/2015 20:53, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: +1 to all of that ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

2015-01-23 21:53 GMT+01:00 moltonel 3x Combo : > On 22/01/2015, Johan C wrote: > > From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novice > > users, relations should be avoided whenever possible. And > associatedStreet > > relations are avoidable. > > The counter-argument is that

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 23/01/2015 21:53, moltonel 3x Combo a écrit : Given that relations in general are not going away, the proper solution to the "novices have trouble with relations" problem is not to use less relations but to make relations easyer to edit and better documented. FWIW, I feel there is slow but ste

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

On 22/01/2015, Johan C wrote: > From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novice > users, relations should be avoided whenever possible. And associatedStreet > relations are avoidable. The counter-argument is that a novice is less likely to break the data when updating an a

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Good to have this discussion. From a computer expert point-of-view relations are fantastic for data integrity and to keep database size low. >From an OSM point-of-view, which includes being friendly towards novice users, relations should be avoided whenever possible. And associatedStreet relations

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Am 2015-01-22 um 21:41 schrieb Michael Reichert: > Worldwide, 3,573,027 objects are member of an associatedStreet relation > and have the role "house". [1,2] 49,260,005 objects are tagged with > addr:housenumber=*. That's why 7.2 % of all adresses in OSM are mapped > using relations. [1] https://

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi, Am 2015-01-22 um 16:14 schrieb Vincent Pottier: > Le 22/01/2015 14:00, althio a écrit : >>> Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of >>> associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it >>> doesn't do that for relations). > UK

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi Dan, Am 2015-01-22 um 13:06 schrieb Dan S: > 2015-01-22 6:53 GMT+00:00 Marc Gemis : >> It seems like the German community started some voting process on the >> deprecation of the associatedStreet-relation (it was on the mailing list and >> on the forum). >> >> Discussion is going on on the wiki

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Le 22/01/2015 14:00, althio a écrit : Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it doesn't do that for relations). UK ~9000 PL

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

> Hi all - does anyone know what the geographic distribution of > associatedStreet is like? taginfo doesn't render a map (it seems it > doesn't do that for relations). This shows a map, I don't know if this is what you are looking for: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/type=associatedStreet#ma

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

2015-01-22 6:53 GMT+00:00 Marc Gemis : > It seems like the German community started some voting process on the > deprecation of the associatedStreet-relation (it was on the mailing list and > on the forum). > > Discussion is going on on the wiki > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Relation:ass

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

> It is not as formal as a proposal voting. I would like to know how the > community (those who vote) think about associatedStreet relations. I think > that in Germany the majority does not like them (anymore). > I will announce a end date. This end date will be date of announcement of end > of

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi, Am 22. Januar 2015 11:45:47 MEZ, schrieb althio althio : > > Please vote here: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Relation:associatedStreet > > Is this a formal voting? It is not as formal as a proposal voting. I would like to know how the community (those who vote) think about a

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

> Please vote here: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Relation:associatedStreet Is this a formal voting? Is there a date for start and end vote? It looks strange, hidden on a Talk:page without the usual template or RFC or call for votes on the international mailing lists. althio __

Re: [Tagging] Deprecation of associatedStreet-relations

Hi, Am 2015-01-22 um 07:53 schrieb Marc Gemis: > It seems like the German community started some voting process on the > deprecation of the associatedStreet-relation (it was on the mailing list > and on the forum). Right: I iniated the discussion. > Discussion is going on on the wiki > https://w