Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Bo-Erik Sandholm
If lacking a anechoic chamber, substitute it with: 1 - A large field covered with about half a meter of newfallen snow. 2 - On the top ridge of a gabled barn standing in a field. 3 - In the top of a large free standing tree. Some effort and dedication is needed to replace the cash expenditure t

Re: [Sursound] Chasing flies with ambisoinics?

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
Hi Fons On 30/05/2012 18:24, Fons Adriaensen wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 02:10:22PM +0100, Augustine Leudar wrote: but anyone listening carefully would have heard a fly about 1 foot high ! This magnification effect has been reported many times. I wonder how much it has to do with playing b

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Richard Dobson
On 31/05/2012 01:27, etienne deleflie wrote: .. perception. I wonder if perhaps direction is *not* that important to spatial audio. Ofcourse, it is a part, but is it central? This view leads to the questioning of the value of higher order ambisonics. I don't think people are actually allowed

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
On 31/05/2012 01:27, etienne deleflie wrote: Although I don’t ascribe to a single 'school' of psychology, I do buy into James Gibson's idea that man (and animals) and their environments are inseparable (this is at the heart of Ecological Psychology). I think (or at least hope) that James Gibs

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
On 30/05/2012 21:49, Eric Carmichel wrote: So how good is Ambisonics in reproducing the original auditory 'scene'? If the reconstructed wavefield is close to the original, then what happens when you record the Ambisonics system itself? Will the playback of this recording yield the same spati

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Richard Dobson
On 31/05/2012 10:03, Dave Malham wrote: .. Here, to any extent, I depart from Gibson. With sufficiently advanced technology there comes a point at which the effort required to suspend disbelief is so small as to be negligible. I was reading a report on a paper a few months ago (I think in New Sci

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
As I understand itt the researchers were saying was that this was not really the case, however, as I'm not a psychologist, I may well be wrong. For me, the point was that nobody (except perhaps those with some pre-existing mental problem) would have had this problem when playing Dungeon via a te

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
Just come across this, which is interesting in context http://www8.informatik.umu.se/~jwworth/4_01RIVA.pdf -- These are my own views and may or may not be shared by my employer /*/ /* Dave Malham http://music.york.ac.uk/staf

[Sursound] Ecological flies (in the face of reality)

2012-05-31 Thread Peter Lennox
Etienne said: -Original Message- From: sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of etienne deleflie Sent: 31 May 2012 01:28 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question) >"Fo

Re: [Sursound] Chasing flies with ambisoinics?

2012-05-31 Thread Peter Lennox
Interestingly, he dinosaur size geese (John Leonard's recording "when geese go bad") was played in a field, speaker radius 15-20 metres. And the passing motorbike was impressively large, too. AS a rule of thumb, I've always found that one needs to bear in mind the speaker array radius when deci

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Peter Lennox
> Dave said: "Here, to any extent, I depart from Gibson. With sufficiently advanced technology there comes a point at which the effort required to suspend disbelief is so small as to be negligible. I was reading a report on a paper a few months ago (I think in New Scientist) where the author

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Peter Lennox
Actually, there is something here, though I do wonder if it is pathological. I've met people who told me that such-and-such a driving game was fantastically realistic. I found it stilted, leaden and profoundly unrealistic. I've even met people who, having 'virtually' driven a particular race tra

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Richard Dobson
On 31/05/2012 12:45, Peter Lennox wrote: sensation, inevitably a poor copy of reality. Whilst philosophers are entirely comfortable with such thought experiments, there is no obvious pragmatic way to investigate such speculations. By definition, if an artificial environment is detectable as

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
On 31 May 2012 12:45, Peter Lennox wrote: > > > > This is The Matrix, anything written by Philip K Dick, and before that, Plato > in his Cave metaphor. > > It is essentially unprovable: > Aren't we having fun here? Of course, in one (very important) sense, nothing other than a logical statement

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
On 31 May 2012 12:52, Peter Lennox wrote: > Actually, there is something here, though I do wonder if it is pathological. > I've met people who told me that such-and-such a driving game was > fantastically realistic. I found it stilted, leaden and profoundly > unrealistic. I've even met people w

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Peter Lennox
Hmm - yes, "so's a racing car" - especially F1. But the whole 'seat of the pants' thing - minute vibrations, feeling the back end 'going light', using a minute dip in the road to assist 'slingshot' round a corner, feeling the 'stickiness' of tyres change with temperature, wear, and whether you'

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Peter Lennox
Well, it seems to me that we're saying that we need the concept of "real enough..." - that is, if we're making an artificial environment that should present certain stimulus qualities to perception, we need to know a) what those qualities might be (hence the discussion on direction, distance etc

Re: [Sursound] Chasing flies with ambisoinics?

2012-05-31 Thread Fons Adriaensen
Hi Dave, >> This magnification effect has been reported many times. >> I wonder how much it has to do with playing back at too high >> levels. We do associate LF energy and size. Too much of it >> and the source 'must be' big. > > That's certainly important - kind of the other end of the scale of

Re: [Sursound] Chasing flies with ambisoinics?

2012-05-31 Thread Dave Malham
Hi Fons On 31/05/2012 14:42, Fons Adriaensen wrote: I did a small experiment a few weeks ago, and was quite surprised by the result. In a concert we did at the CdS there were three pieces for solo flute and 'tape'. We got the 'tapes' as CDs of course. The artistic director of the festival asked

Re: [Sursound] Chasing flies with ambisoinics?

2012-05-31 Thread Augustine Leudar
se, and you had to go quite close to any speaker > in order to notice there was something strange with the sound it > produced. > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private

Re: [Sursound] Catching the same fly twice (and a curious question)

2012-05-31 Thread Jörn Nettingsmeier
On 05/31/2012 11:38 AM, Richard Dobson wrote: On 31/05/2012 10:03, Dave Malham wrote: .. Here, to any extent, I depart from Gibson. With sufficiently advanced technology there comes a point at which the effort required to suspend disbelief is so small as to be negligible. I was reading a report

[Sursound] Digital spreaders

2012-05-31 Thread Martin Leese
Dave Malham wrote: > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Chasing flies with ambisoinics? ... > That's interesting - it kind of chimes with some experiments I have been > doing recently with digital > recreations of Gerzon's spreaders, which used phase shift based processing. > Although technically > they are

[Sursound] Doppler ILLUSION (vs. shift) and more

2012-05-31 Thread Eric Carmichel
t. I'll keep you posted. As always, I greatly appreciate everyone’s help and insight! Best always, Eric -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/at