> I have now been trying to break the common conflation that download "speed"
> means anything at all for day to day, minute to minute, second to
> second, use, once you crack 10mbit, now, for over 14 years. Am I
> succeeding? I lost the 25/10 battle, and keep pointing at really
> terrible late
lb software updates every evening /rant.
> On Mar 15, 2024, at 11:41, Colin_Higbie via Starlink
> wrote:
>
>> I have now been trying to break the common conflation that download "speed"
>> means anything at all for day to day, minute to minute, second to
>> se
Beautifully said, David Lang. I completely agree.
At the same time, I do think if you give people tools where latency is rarely
an issue (say a 10x improvement, so perception of 1/10 the latency), developers
will be less efficient UNTIL that inefficiency begins to yield poor UX. For
example, if
Just to be clear: 4K is absolutely a standard in streaming, with that being the
most popular TV being sold today. 8K is not and likely won't be until 80+" TVs
become the norm. The few 8K streaming videos that exist are available primarily
as YouTube curiosities, with virtually no displays on the
Sebastian,
Not sure if we're saying the same thing here or not. While I would agree with
the statement that all else being equal, lower latency is always better than
higher latency, there are definitely latency (and bandwidth) requirements,
where if the latency is higher (or the bandwidth lower
David,
Just on that one point that you "don't think developers think about latency at
all," what developers (en masse, and as managed by their employers) care about
is the user experience. If they don't think latency is an important part of the
UX, then indeed they won't think about it. However
rs, cultural
change in how we watch and use it, etc. Those kinds of changes take decades.
Cheers,
Colin
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2024 12:17:11 -0400
From: Dave Collier-Brown
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: [Starlink] Sidebar to It’s the Latency, FCC: Measure it?
Message-ID:
Content-Type
Was that 4K HDR (not SDR) using the standard protocols that streaming services
use (Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, etc.) or was it just some YouTube 4K SDR
videos? YouTube will show "HDR" on the gear icon for content that's 4K HDR. If
it only shows "4K" instead of "HDR," then means it's SDR. No
David Fernández, those bitrates are safe numbers, but many streams could get by
with less at those resolutions. H.265 compression is at a variable bit rate
with simpler scenes requiring less bandwidth. Note that 4K with HDR (30 bits
per pixel rather than 24) consistently also fits within 25Mbps.
sks from NYC to LA has decent capacity/'bandwidth' but
lousy latency...
> The quest of latency requirements might be, in fact, a quest to see how one
> could use that low latency technology that is possible and available anyways.
> Alex
> Le 30/04/2024 à 16:00, Colin_Higbie v
gt; (as for the truck full of harddisks, and jumbo jets full of DVDs - they are
> just concepts: striking good examples of how enormous bandwidths are
> possible, but still to see in practice; physicsts also talked about a train
> transported by a train transported by a train and so on, to o
Gene,
I think the lion's share of other people (many brilliant people here) on this
thread are focused on keeping latency down when under load. I generally just
read and don't contribute on those discussions, because that's not my area of
expertise. I only posted my point on bandwidth, not to d
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 22:05:21 +0200
From: Sebastian Moeller
To: Colin_Higbie
Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"
Subject: Re: [Starlink] It’s the Latency, FCC
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Colin,
> On 30. Apr 2024, at 20:05, C
David,
Yes, poor word choice on my part to say "nearly all TVs sold today are 4K TVs."
I was thinking of 4K sets in contrast to the tiny % of 8K sets when I wrote
that to make the point that 8K is not about to become a market standard like
4K. Better to have said, "The market for 8K tv sets is
David,
You wrote, "I in no way advocate for the elimination of 25Mb connectivity. What
I am arguing against is defining that as the minimum acceptable connectivity.
i.e. pretending that anything less than that may as well not exist (ot at the
very least should not be defined as 'broadband')"
I
David,
Yes, sure, if there's a choice between Internet access at 10Mbps and no
Internet at all forever, 10Mbps is clearly better than nothing. But that's
unlikely to be a realistic choice. A more realistic version of that is:
budgeting lets us roll out at a rate of 1,000 homes per week at 25Mbp
David,
I'm not thinking about an urban rollout. My default perspective is rural. The
closest house to my farm is about a half mile away, only 330 people in our
whole town, which is geographically large. This is what drove my need for
Starlink in the first place – I had previously been paying $3
Alex, fortunately, we are not bound to use personal experiences and
observations on this. We have real market data that can provide an objective,
data-supported conclusion. No need for a
chocolate-or-vanilla-ice-cream-tastes-better discussion on this.
Yes, cameras can film at 8K (and higher in
Nathan,
While you hit the point in your second paragraph, namely that Apple REQUIRES
25Mbps (as do others of the major streaming services, including Netflix today),
your first paragraph misses it. It doesn’t matter what is POSSIBLE (unless you
have the ability to persuade all streaming services
/frantisekborsik
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On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 4:47 PM Colin_Higbie via Starlink
mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:
Alex, for
SP's do have de
facto regional monopolies, this is a serious problem.
Cheers,
Colin
-Original Message-
From: Sebastian Moeller
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 2:52 AM
To: Colin_Higbie
Cc: Alexandre Petrescu ; Frantisek Borsik
; starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: R
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