[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-09 Thread Ralf Stephan
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 11:46:18 AM UTC+1, Marc Mezzarobba wrote: > > Emmanuel Charpentier wrote: > > Should this be discussed again, with a call for *VOTE* ? > > I don't think this is something that can be decided independently of > other conventions (such as the semantics of equality ...

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-09 Thread Marc Mezzarobba
Emmanuel Charpentier wrote: > Should this be discussed again, with a call for *VOTE* ? I don't think this is something that can be decided independently of other conventions (such as the semantics of equality and comparisons and the handling of inexactness). At the very least, I think someone wo

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Dima Pasechnik
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 8:08:01 PM UTC, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote: > > Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 16:16:06 UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik a écrit : >> >> IMHO there ought to be possible to return "Unknown" as the result. >> Indeed, in many cases such an exact computation is not feasible. >> > > IS

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Emmanuel Charpentier
Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 16:16:06 UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik a écrit : > > IMHO there ought to be possible to return "Unknown" as the result. > Indeed, in many cases such an exact computation is not feasible. > ISTR that this discussion (binary vs "ternary" logic, "trools", or introduction of an "U

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Dima Pasechnik
IMHO there ought to be possible to return "Unknown" as the result. Indeed, in many cases such an exact computation is not feasible. On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 9:54:36 PM UTC, vdelecroix wrote: > > Hello, > > Some symbolic expressions claim that they are not real > > sage: cos(pi/7).is_real

Re: [sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Ralf Stephan
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 11:40:13 AM UTC+1, vdelecroix wrote: > > Making is_real works on the image of most functions would be good. It > would in particular let Sage recognize that cos(pi/7) is a real number. Please add your ideas to https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/22155 > Would it be

Re: [sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Vincent Delecroix
Le 08/01/2017 à 09:42, Ralf Stephan a écrit : On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:14:15 AM UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote: Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 08:48:33 UTC+1, Ralf Stephan a écrit : You mean doing floating point computations to determine if an expression is real? Aaarghh.. That wa

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Ralf Stephan
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 9:14:15 AM UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote: > > Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 08:48:33 UTC+1, Ralf Stephan a écrit : >> >> You mean doing floating point computations to determine if an >> expression is real? >> > > Aaarghh.. > That was tongue in cheek, sorry. Actually

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-08 Thread Emmanuel Charpentier
Le dimanche 8 janvier 2017 08:48:33 UTC+1, Ralf Stephan a écrit : > > On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:54:36 PM UTC+1, vdelecroix wrote: >> >> Some symbolic expressions claim that they are not real >> > > No. They just don't claim being real. The docstring says explicitly > "Return True if this

[sage-devel] Re: symbolics: is_real versus conversion to RR

2017-01-07 Thread Ralf Stephan
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 10:54:36 PM UTC+1, vdelecroix wrote: > > Some symbolic expressions claim that they are not real > No. They just don't claim being real. The docstring says explicitly "Return True if this expression is known to be a real number." I guess we could (and should) make