On 2013-01-17, Volker Braun wrote:
> --=_Part_173_26006841.1358428542611
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:13:02 AM UTC, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>> Mind you, when I worked on the latest Maxima update (#13364), I had to do
>> git
>> bisect on *
On Thursday, January 17, 2013 2:13:02 AM UTC, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> Mind you, when I worked on the latest Maxima update (#13364), I had to do
> git
> bisect on *Maxima* repo to debug *Sage*, and then apply the results of
> this
> investigation to stripped of .git/ Maxima source tree, for whi
Op donderdag 17 januari 2013 13:30:45 UTC+1 schreef Dima Pasechnik het
volgende:
>
> No, not really. The bug fixes produced included
>
> * unmerging a particular commit in Maxima master,
> (by providing a corresponding patch in spkg),
> and this was purely Sage-specific.
> And for this
On 2013-01-17, Burcin Erocal wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:31:41 + (UTC)
> Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>> On 2013-01-17, Burcin Erocal wrote:
>> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:17:43 + (UTC)
>> > Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>> [...]
>> >> This still looks like an ugly hack. Shouldn't we rather use
>
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 11:31:41 + (UTC)
Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On 2013-01-17, Burcin Erocal wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:17:43 + (UTC)
> > Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> [...]
> >> This still looks like an ugly hack. Shouldn't we rather use
> >> something like [git-subtree]
> >> (https://
On 2013-01-17, Burcin Erocal wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:17:43 + (UTC)
> Dima Pasechnik wrote:
[...]
>> This still looks like an ugly hack. Shouldn't we rather use
>> something like [git-subtree]
>> (https://github.com/apenwarr/git-subtree/) to deal with upstream
>> source?
>
> git-sub{
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 07:17:43 + (UTC)
Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik
> > wrote:
> >> On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
> >>> --=_Part_588_6290856.1358340327889
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO
On 2013-01-17, Keshav Kini wrote:
> Dima Pasechnik writes:
>>> Expanding on http://wiki.sagemath.org/WorkflowSEP one would have
>>>
>>> sage_root/
>>> sage # the binary
>>> Makefile # top level Makefile
>>> (configure) # perhaps, eventually
>>> ... # othe
On 2013-01-17, Keshav Kini wrote:
> Dima Pasechnik writes:
>
>> On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>> On 2013-01-16, Volke
Dima Pasechnik writes:
> On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>> On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
>> --=_Part_588_629
Dima Pasechnik writes:
>> Expanding on http://wiki.sagemath.org/WorkflowSEP one would have
>>
>> sage_root/
>> sage # the binary
>> Makefile # top level Makefile
>> (configure) # perhaps, eventually
>> ... # other standard top level files (README, etc.)
>>
On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>> On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
> --=_Part_588_6290856.1358340327889
> Content
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:17 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>>> On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
--=_Part_588_6290856.1358340327889
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
On 2013-01-17, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>> On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
>>> --=_Part_588_6290856.1358340327889
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>>
>>> I guess there are at least two different meanings of "the Sage
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
>> --=_Part_588_6290856.1358340327889
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I guess there are at least two different meanings of "the Sage tarball" in
>> this context. I was talking abo
On 2013-01-16, Volker Braun wrote:
> --=_Part_588_6290856.1358340327889
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I guess there are at least two different meanings of "the Sage tarball" in
> this context. I was talking about the sum of all code checked into the Sage
> repositories,
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Burcin Erocal wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:43:15 +0100
> Julien Puydt wrote:
>
> > Le 15/01/2013 23:28, Volker Braun a écrit :
> > > The specialist mathematical libraries, by contrast, don't get much
> > > exposure. And even if somebody packaged them then gen
Michael Orlitzky writes:
> For the *really* messed-up packages, we would keep the ebuilds in an
> overlay and do whatever we want with them there. And over time,
> hopefully fix them and send those fixes upstream.
Well, this is pretty much what the sage-on-gentoo overlay does :)
http://github.co
On 01/16/2013 12:30 PM, John Cremona wrote:
>>
>> and a pile of other problems, chief among which is that you've got PhD
>> mathematicians wasting their time fixing CFLAGS.
>
> -- which we may still do for fun, it being a whole lot easier than
> supervising PhD students!
>
Disclaimer: I am a PhD
> > and a pile of other problems, chief among which is that you've got PhD
> > mathematicians wasting their time fixing CFLAGS.
>
> -- which we may still do for fun, it being a whole lot easier than
> supervising PhD students!
>
>
+1
That's true as well for teaching in general, at least tea
>
> and a pile of other problems, chief among which is that you've got PhD
> mathematicians wasting their time fixing CFLAGS.
-- which we may still do for fun, it being a whole lot easier than
supervising PhD students!
John
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On 01/16/2013 07:17 AM, Timo Kluck wrote:
>
> This is true. I think the reason Sage is the way it is right now, is
> that it wants to have a dependency system not only saying "I depend
> on..." but also "I depend on ... with these build flags ... and these
> patches". Clearly, autotools and pkg-co
Le 16/01/2013 13:45, Volker Braun a écrit :
I guess there are at least two different meanings of "the Sage tarball"
in this context. I was talking about the sum of all code checked into
the Sage repositories, which is what one would usually call the release.
And the third party code is not going
I guess there are at least two different meanings of "the Sage tarball" in
this context. I was talking about the sum of all code checked into the Sage
repositories, which is what one would usually call the release. And the
third party code is not going to be part of the git repo under the curren
On 16 January 2013 10:25, Burcin Erocal wrote:
>
> Take eclib as an example. IIRC, it was John Cremona's private code
> until William convinced him to release the code under GPL, and
> included it in Sage. In time it got progressively better, for example
> an autotools based build system and usin
Op woensdag 16 januari 2013 12:51:29 UTC+1 schreef Snark het volgende:
>
> Le 16/01/2013 11:24, Volker Braun a �crit :
> > On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:22 AM UTC, Timo Kluck wrote:
> >
> > And then it would be nice if we'd distribute two tarballs for
> > downstream to package
Le 16/01/2013 11:24, Volker Braun a écrit :
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:22 AM UTC, Timo Kluck wrote:
And then it would be nice if we'd distribute two tarballs for
downstream to package, the one depending on the other: sage (or
sagemath) which is the command line interface and
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 02:48:16AM -0800, Timo Kluck wrote:
> The problem was that the install root usually needs to be known at compile
> time for the binary packages. I think that the location of the
> $PREFIX/share/PACKAGE directory are usually put into the binaries by
> config.h.
that is po
Op woensdag 16 januari 2013 11:37:17 UTC+1 schreef Felix Salfelder het
volgende:
>
> Hi there.
>
> The configuration item RootDir has a special meaning. If set, all paths
> in Dir:: will be relative to RootDir, even paths that are specified
> absolutely. So, for instance, if RootDir is set to /
Op woensdag 16 januari 2013 11:24:19 UTC+1 schreef Volker Braun het
volgende:
>
> On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:22 AM UTC, Timo Kluck wrote:
>
>> And then it would be nice if we'd distribute two tarballs for downstream
>> to package, the one depending on the other: sage (or sagemath) whic
You are missing the point. I never said that that math software should be a
second-class citizen. In fact, it is our main focus. But it is different
from build system and infrastructure in that
A) Sage depends usually at least on a particular version, and often on
particular build switches / p
Hi there.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 08:32:29AM -0800, Timo Kluck wrote:
> I looked into this, seeing whether we could use portage, pkgsrc, apt
> or
> macports for this. Unfortunately, they all either require root
> privileges
> and/or a dedicated user added to the system (portage, apt), require
> yo
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:49:22 AM UTC, Timo Kluck wrote:
> And then it would be nice if we'd distribute two tarballs for downstream
> to package, the one depending on the other: sage (or sagemath) which is the
> command line interface and the notebook, and something like python-sage (in
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 08:43:15 +0100
Julien Puydt wrote:
> Le 15/01/2013 23:28, Volker Braun a écrit :
> > The specialist mathematical libraries, by contrast, don't get much
> > exposure. And even if somebody packaged them then generally in
> > useless form. E.g. Fedora ships symmetrica, but its us
Feel free to put your money where your mouth is and rewrite GAP. When you
are finished, please tell us about your experience in updating a gigabyte
of third-party packages for your new build system.
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:43:15 AM UTC, Snark wrote:
>
> (1) Any patch to upstream should
On Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:49:22 -0800 (PST)
Timo Kluck wrote:
> Op woensdag 16 januari 2013 04:17:48 UTC+1 schreef Michael Orlitzky
> het volgende:
> >
> >
> > Gentoo: emerge sage
> > Fedora: yum install sage
> > Debian: apt-get install sage
> > Ubuntu: apt-get install sage
> > Mac: port
Op woensdag 16 januari 2013 04:17:48 UTC+1 schreef Michael Orlitzky het
volgende:
>
>
> Gentoo: emerge sage
> Fedora: yum install sage
> Debian: apt-get install sage
> Ubuntu: apt-get install sage
> Mac: port install sage
> FreeBSD: pkg install subversion
> ...
>
>
> And then it wou
Op woensdag 16 januari 2013 08:43:15 UTC+1 schreef Snark het volgende:
>
> Le 15/01/2013 23:28, Volker Braun a �crit :
>
> (1) Any patch to upstream should be forwarded upstream.
>
> (2) If upstream doesn't have a good build system, provide one, and don't
> forget (1).
>
> This is of course t
Le 15/01/2013 23:28, Volker Braun a écrit :
The specialist mathematical libraries, by contrast, don't get much
exposure. And even if somebody packaged them then generally in useless
form. E.g. Fedora ships symmetrica, but its useless since it is not
compiled with -DFAST. Which nobody knows what i
kcrisman writes:
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:19:45 PM UTC-5, Michael Orlitzky
> wrote:
>
> On 01/15/2013 10:17 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> > FreeBSD: pkg install subversion
> > ...
>
> Just went insane for a second there =)
>
>
> Actually, we DO have a FreeBSD port, tha
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:19:45 PM UTC-5, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
>
> On 01/15/2013 10:17 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> > FreeBSD: pkg install subversion
> > ...
>
> Just went insane for a second there =)
>
Actually, we DO have a FreeBSD port, thanks to Stephen Montgomery-Smith,
build
On 01/15/2013 10:17 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
> FreeBSD: pkg install subversion
> ...
Just went insane for a second there =)
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On 01/15/2013 08:25 PM, kcrisman wrote:
>
> Just curious - how would Mac fit in with all this? I know it's possible
> to do some of these package things with it, but for the "ordinary"
> user... or would one still in principle be able to download the Sage
> source, disconnect from the Internet, t
>
>
>> Just curious - how would Mac fit in with all this?
>>
>
> Not sure what you mean here.
>
>
>> I know it's possible to do some of these package things with it, but for
>> the "ordinary" user... or would one still in principle be able to download
>> the Sage source, disconnect from the
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 5:25 PM, kcrisman wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:28:24 PM UTC-5, Volker Braun wrote:
>>
>> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is possibly separating build
>> infrastructure (gcc, patch, iconv, ...) from the specialist mathematical
>> libraries. The former are
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:28:24 PM UTC-5, Volker Braun wrote:
>
> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is possibly separating build
> infrastructure (gcc, patch, iconv, ...) from the specialist mathematical
> libraries. The former are generally available in usable form from your
> distro,
I think we all agree that we should have a single repository since
experience shows that it is a hassle to simultaneously make mutually
dependent changes to different repos.
Although one should generally do small steps at a time, this is a natural
point to do other changes like rearrange direct
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is possibly separating build
infrastructure (gcc, patch, iconv, ...) from the specialist mathematical
libraries. The former are generally available in usable form from your
distro, or can be compiled without too much hassle in some overlay (say,
gentoo prefi
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:44:13 -0800
"R. Andrew Ohana" wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Burcin Erocal
> wrote:
> > Keshav, Jordi and many others have pointed these out before, but
> > our main problem seems to be:
> >
> > - we are not really using a DVCS
> > - the build system is showi
On 15 January 2013 12:44, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:
> such use cases. I would rather see sage use a lightweight, relatively
> minimally featured package manager that was designed from the ground up for
> prefixed environments, however, I am not aware of any package manager around
> that satisfies suc
On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Burcin Erocal wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:27:38 -0500
> Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
>
> > Actually, I don't see what ditching hg has anything to do with the
> > real meat of the actual problem, fixing the build system.
>
> +1000
>
> I don't recall the desi
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 08:32:29 -0800 (PST)
Timo Kluck wrote:
> Op dinsdag 15 januari 2013 17:01:09 UTC+1 schreef Burcin Erocal het
> volgende:
> > Why don't we discuss the solutions to these problems
> > separately and put them into action?
> >
> > - Development model:
> >
> >I like the i
On 15 January 2013 11:27, kcrisman wrote:
> As for me and my ilk, really the only advantage would be to have the
> "instant patch" thing you can do on Github and perhaps doing something
> easier than queues for big changes (which I'm not convinced branches are).
> If we can do this with Mercurial
Op dinsdag 15 januari 2013 17:01:09 UTC+1 schreef Burcin Erocal het
volgende:
>
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:27:38 -0500
>
> Keshav, Jordi and many others have pointed these out before, but
> our main problem seems to be:
>
> - we are not really using a DVCS
> - the build system is showing its l
On Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:01:09 AM UTC-5, Burcin Erocal wrote:
>
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:27:38 -0500
> Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso > wrote:
>
> > Actually, I don't see what ditching hg has anything to do with the
> > real meat of the actual problem, fixing the build system.
>
> +1000
>
>
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:27:38 -0500
Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> Actually, I don't see what ditching hg has anything to do with the
> real meat of the actual problem, fixing the build system.
+1000
I don't recall the design of the new "development model", "directory
structure" or "build syst
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