Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria

2009-01-08 Thread jay peltz
As I follow this thread and just got off a 12 and 12 roof, I wondered how the fire departments deal with roofs you cannot get to easily? I've seen lots of photos of firefighers on roofs, but pretty much all flat roofs or low angle ones. For example a metal roof in the wet, steep roofs steep

Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria

2009-01-08 Thread Joel Davidson
Hi Jay, You are right. A lot of photos and almost all live shots are from news helicopters usually showing commercial flat roof fires. Most of the smaller fires and residential fires are knocked down too fast for reporters to get to the scene or the news services think are not eye-catching. Mo

[RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Peter Parrish
Here is an issue that has been bothering me for some time and I finally was asked to explain it to a junior member of our Company and had to admit ignorance... I am referring to the issue of derating the ampacity of wire in a raceway or conduit with other current carrying wires. I refer to Table B

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Bill Brooks
Peter, Where do you read the 50% diversity? My 2005 NEC handbook clearly says that the raceway adjustment table is based on NO diversity--all conductors loaded at maximum. Bill. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrench

Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria?

2009-01-08 Thread Bill Brooks
All, Here is the refuting post by my friend Matt Paiss of the San Jose Fire Department. Our thanks go out to him for his responsiveness. It is now posted on the homepage of www.FireFighterCloseCalls.com FIREFIGHTING AND SOLAR PANELS: FACT VS FICTION URL: http://firefighterclosecalls.com/fullstor

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Peter Parrish
NEC 2005 Handbook, Annex B, page 1204, Table B.310.11 I see now that 100% diversity applies to 4-6 and 7-9 ccc's but 50% above that. Sorry. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 32

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Chris Daum
Some of this just puts me to sleep It's a blonde thing, I guess! -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:01 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re:

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Mark Frye
In any case,I believe "load diversity" refers to the duty cycle of the various circuits with constant load levels, as opposed to the instant current flowing in the conductors to any given load. Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.ber

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Bill Brooks
Peter, We cannot use load diversity to increase the number of conductors in a PV conduit since there generally is little diversity among the conductors, particularly on large arrays. The more traditional conduit adjustment table to use is Table 310.15(B)(2)(a). The value from this table is multip

[RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Peter Parrish
Boy did I light one off. Can I steer an enlightened soul back to my specific question: "In specific: if we have two DC PV circuits (4 wires: 2 positive, 2 negative) in EMT and we have taken into account the "PV 125% circuit current calculation", "cable sizing of 125% for proper operation of overcu

Re: [RE-wrenches] wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria

2009-01-08 Thread cvsolar2
I can't speak for larger depts, but we train our folks to always work off roof ladders -- regardless of pitch. just because rafters can become surprisingly unstable in a fire. (it takes only 400 F to cause those stamped on metal plates to warp and fall off prefab rafters). as for firefighter

Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria

2009-01-08 Thread Dan Fink
Hi Jay --What we do for nasty slopes and bad weather is use roof ladders. Firefighters ladder conventionally up to the eaves, one secures the ladder and stands at the top, and a roof ladder is passed up from below. It has big hooks on one end that are designed to hook over the roof peak, and they

[RE-wrenches] Wildlife issues with ground mounts

2009-01-08 Thread David Buckner
I'm curious to hear any horror stories (or simple nuisances) relating to open field ground mounted arrays involving wildlife. Either wildlife or array being damaged by the other. The only hassles we've had have been the occasional squirrel under flush mounted rooftop arrays. We've had a few grou

Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria

2009-01-08 Thread Ezra Auerbach
Don't forget to tell people to let their rural vfd know where their inverter disconnects are. REgards, Ezra Auerbach (off grid ex volunteer firefighter. On 8-Jan-09, at 4:18 PM, Dan Fink wrote: Hi Jay -- What we do for nasty slopes and bad weather is use roof ladders. Firefighters l

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wildlife issues with ground mounts

2009-01-08 Thread Joel Davidson
People and animals have walked into PV ground mounts (and wind tower guy wires) in the dark. Livestock and wild animals have used arrays and other ground mounted equipment for scratching posts. Children and others have climbed on arrays and ground mounted equipment (attractive nuisance). Fences

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread jay peltz
Hi Bill, Who puts this into a spread sheet or computer program? thanks, jay peltz power On Jan 8, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Bill Brooks wrote: Peter, We cannot use load diversity to increase the number of conductors in a PV conduit since there generally is little diversity among the conductors

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable Sizing

2009-01-08 Thread Bill Brooks
Peter, No--is that short enough. Imax is defined by 690.8(A). Imax is the value used for doing all conditions of use calculations including temperature corrections, conduit fill, and sunlight impact. The overcurrent protection device (OCPD) must be sized to 125% of Imax for continuous operation

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wildlife issues with ground mounts

2009-01-08 Thread Jeff Yago
We did a pole mount system several years ago for an off-grid home we also designed earlier that had a rooftop array.   The pole mount system was an add to expand the existing solar capacity.  The pole was the "normal" height that should have been used, but because the ground was so steep then flatt

Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria?

2009-01-08 Thread Bill Brooks
All, This message from Matt Paiss shows that the message is getting out: Bill, Not only did it go on their homepage, but it got sent out on what they call their "Secret List", which is not really very secret, as it has a subscriber base of somewhere near 100,000. Needless to say, my inbox, cell