/2014 02:36 PM
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Venting (WAS Passive Battery Venting)
Sent by:
"RE-wrenches"
Drake,
No, and unless and until it comes up again, they won't. My drama with them
in January led to a draw: I put in a vent fan and they tabled the issue
without broade
Drake,
No, and unless and until it comes up again, they won't. My drama
with them in January led to a draw: I put in a vent fan and they
tabled the issue without broader resolution and approved the final
inspection so the clients could move in.
14 12:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Venting (WAS
Passive Battery Venting)
Allan,
That was my plan when he insisted on venting to the outside.
I
4 12:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Venting (WAS Passive Battery Venting)
Allan,
That was my plan when he insisted on venting to the outside.
I use the Zephyr Power Vent for liquid lead acid batteries. When replaced
the liquid electrolyte batteries in our backup s
Allan,
That was my plan when he insisted on venting to the outside.
I use the Zephyr Power Vent for liquid lead acid batteries. When
replaced the liquid electrolyte batteries in our backup system with
AGM, we turned off the Zephyr and took the door off the battery box.
I showed it to the clie
Drake,
My suggestion is that to achieve the client's wishes as well as
your own cooling concerns, you include a Zephyr Power Vent in a 2"
PVC vent stack to the outside. Let the charge controller's
voltage-actuated auxiliary setting power the vent (it's OK to do
Allan,
The primary concern should be the volume of gas discharge if over voltage
occurs. This study helped me understand the risks:
http://www.sonnenschein.org/Gassing.htm
Quote from the study: "Gassing according to IEC 896/2-Oct 95 @ 2.3v / cell
within 30 days was measured @ 5mL/cell/ah while
Allan,
The International Fire Code
(2006 version quoted below, confirm the version used in your region)
give us clear guidance on the ventilation requirements for stationary
battery systems, and provides both engineering parameters and prescriptive
solutions clearly spelled out
. These can be us
I can give you one example for them to consider: UPS systems. They all
use sealed VRLA batteries, and are not vented to the outside.
2nd thing for them to chew on: The Midnite Battery boxes are ETL
listed, and you are installing them to the manufacturer's recommendations.
3rd, your use of arti
Wrenches,
I need a bit of help here if you have it. Since 2002 we have
installed somewhere between 30 and 35 systems with sealed batteries
installed in manufactured enclosures, originally Outback enclosures
and in recent years Midnite MNBE enclosures. At least ten of thes
I've found the Zephyr Power vents to be a little undersized in larger
batteries with arrays over 1000 watts. Still get that smell in the room
outside of the battery box, though its not explosive. That was with the
12 v model. I wouldn't mind seeing someone make a similar vent plumbed
to larg
John,
Thanks for the follow-up on this subject. I'd like to change the example
to show the ventilation required rather than the hydrogen liberated.
Consider a 48-volt bank of L16RE-B batteries: that's 24 cells of 370
amphours. Using the 14 cc/hr/Ah/cell H2 rate for equalizing gives a
total h
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry Crutcher,
Starlight Solar Power Systems
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting; Corrosion
Hi John,
I am curious about what you saying "float or equalization&qu
Correction: I meant to say .05*C20 for AGM equalization current.
Larry
On Jan 6, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:
Hello William,
My understanding is once the SO4 is fully absorbed, excess H and O are produced
and could be vented if the pressure rises abov
Hello William,
My understanding is once the SO4 is fully absorbed, excess H and O are produced
and could be vented if the pressure rises above 5psi. So, when saturation is
complete, voltage should be reduced and no gassing would take place. For this
reason, I always recommend using charge curre
Hi John,
I am curious about what you saying "float or equalization". Here's my
understanding: If the battery is able to accept all current presented, the
electrochemical process, SO4 combining with H released through decomposition,
is balanced and with little excess gas released. When the elect
In reference to William's comment about equalizing VRLA batteries,
see page 17 of Concorde Battery's SunXtender technical manual,
available online at
http://www.sunxtender.com/pdfs/Sun_Xtender_Battery_Technical_Manual.pdf.
They instruct charging these AGM VRLA batteries
Wrenches,
While looking for information regarding standards about battery room
ventilation I ran into this link, which has some good information and is
certainly worth everyone's attention.
http://www.belvoir.army.mil/safety/inc/battery-explosion.asp
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
Larry:
I always thought that any breach of a valve in a VRLA battery was a sign of
a failure. I recently spoke with a technician at MK Batteries and learned
that venting and/or seepage is not uncommon and not a sign of failure.
I have also heard in the distant past and then read recently on
-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob ellison
> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 12:18 PM
> To: 'RE-wrenches'
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting; Corrosion
>
> I have had great luck by heating Vas
m: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 7:59 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting; Corrosion
John,
Could you clarify units? "0.418 Liters/AH" is
un...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf
Of bob ellison
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 12:18 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting; Corrosion
I have had great luck by heating
Vaseline to the hot liqui
January 05, 2012 10:37 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting; Corrosion
Almost all RV's have a small, poorly vented battery box with 4 GC2
batteries. We see corrosion all the time. When we replace batteries, we use
zinc coated copper terminals and apply a thin layer o
Almost all RV's have a small, poorly vented battery box with 4 GC2 batteries.
We see corrosion all the time. When we replace batteries, we use zinc coated
copper terminals and apply a thin layer of grease with a toothbrush to every
exposed portion of the connectors. This simple step, with the oc
I concur. thank you.dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44
Original Message
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
From: "Jeff Yago" <jry...@dtisolar.com>
Date: Wed, January 04, 2012
Here is another issue related to this thread.
Yes, you can build sealed battery boxes and add vent pipes, fans, whatever,
but battery terminals and battery cables installed in a confined box will
have far more problems with terminal corrosion due to more concentrated
forms of gasses and a mist o
Jay,
I have had a solar charged 12v RV/marine battery explode inside a very large
work trailer, but found that the battery was bone dry which may have been
the real reason for the melt down and not a trailer full of gas as the only
damage was a totally exploded battery case. I was working inside
Hi Jay,
I have. 4 golf cart batteries were installed in a non vented compartment of an
RV...with other electronics like inverter, relays, solenoids, etc. I was about
500 feet away and heard an expolsion. When I arrived at the RV, the bay door
was mostly blown off the hinges. Needless to say the
...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 4:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
Hi All,
We've been having this discussion about battery box explosions.
I would like a show of hands who has actually seen or truly known of a ba
-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
H2 is actually very difficult to contain, and can migrate through most
materials.
A super sealed, very small space, with a lot of charging source, its
possible to reach combustion, but IMHO, you'd have to really try to
create a system to do
H2 is actually very difficult to contain, and can migrate through most
materials.
A super sealed, very small space, with a lot of charging source, its
possible to reach combustion, but IMHO, you'd have to really try to
create a system to do that. I've had a cell burn off its H2 once, so
yes yo
Hi All,
We've been having this discussion about battery box explosions.
I would like a show of hands who has actually seen or truly known of a battery
enclosure that has exploded due to hydrogen gas build up.
And some specifics about that occurrence if possible.
Thanks,
Jay
peltz power
Jeffrey,
We installed many battery banks in basements for both backup and off-grid
systems and in the past few years we have gone to battery “rooms” that were
designed for this type use. These rooms include fire-rated interior drywall
construction, an exterior window, a low intake vent louv
:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
I am doing this project in India. The cost structures here are a great deal
more constrained that what we're used to. Using AGM batteries is going to be a
deal-breaker with the client as far as cost.
I also don't kno
de of the box.
Happy New Year,
Bob Ellison
Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L
Ratico
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 2:47 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] ba
-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of JRQ
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 1:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
I am doing this project in India. The cost structures here are a great deal
more
not. Let's be rational. Flammable Vapor is Flammable Vapor. and Explosive condition is an Explosive condition.I'm gonna go play.. . Happy new year everybody. the Sun returns dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44
--
rtified PV Installer
Peripatetic Solar Technician
From: bob ellison
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Sent: Sunday, January 1, 2012 5:06 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
Mount a BRUSHLESS fan inside the box blowing out into the pipe, do not
pressurize the
nches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
Hello Jeffrey,
Since you're working under constrained conditions for the install, and
apparently have little option on using the flooded/vented batteries, here
are some suggestions that may help:
1) Do your best to ensure the battery enclosure is
--- On Sat, 12/31/11, Michael Welch wrote:
> From: Michael Welch
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
> To: "RE-wrenches"
> Date: Saturday, December 31, 2011, 5:20 PM
>
> Exeltech wrote at 02:16 PM 12/31/2011:
>
> >4) Install the vent fan on the
I agree with Michael. I would try to avoid pressurized battery boxes.
I also want to add that I have always followed the 360 degree limit for
vent pipe bends.
I have also learned that even though the Zephyr vents can be replaced,
most of them run so
quietly that most end users don't notice wh
Exeltech wrote at 02:16 PM 12/31/2011:
>4) Install the vent fan on the fresh-air inlet side of the box.
Not a recommended practice. This pressurizes the box, so that the gas can exit
through any leaks into the room just as easily as up the vent. So instead, the
fan should be an exhaust fan,
e if it
*should* fail.
Happy New Year to all.
Dan
> --- On Sat, 12/31/11, Richard L Ratico
> wrote:
>
> From: Richard L Ratico
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Date: Saturday, December 31, 2011, 1:47 PM
> Huh?
:47 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
Huh??? I'm probably missiing something here. What happens when the powervent
fails???
I replace it with another, the same thing I do when other equipment in our
whiz
bang
industry fails.
The difference wit
Huh??? I'm probably missiing something here. What happens when the powervent
fails???
I replace it with another, the same thing I do when other equipment in our whiz
bang
industry fails.
The difference with the powervent is that it is easy and relatively inexpensive.
I've also had good luck using
in those parameters?
Jeffrey Quackenbush
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Peripatetic Solar Technician
From: Allan Sindelar
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] battery venting
Jeff,
I would use a P
Jeffrey,
I'll second Jay's suggestion that sealed AGM batteries are the best
choice in this circumstance. Presumably this is a grid backup system so
the poor endurance of AGMs for cycling applications shouldn't be an
issue. If you use a Zephyr power vent horizontal runs shouldn't be
problem,
I, 2nd Allan's recommendation, or better, use sealed batteries, since
its battery backup, and so small. People are bad about battery
maintenance on anything but off grid. You definitely can't afford to
have hydrogen sulfide going up through the building.
Ray Walters
On 12/31/2011 8:12 AM, A
I would recommend sealed batteries for this application.
Jay
Peltz Power
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 31, 2011, at 6:59 AM, JRQ wrote:
> Wrenches,
>
> I'm looking at a potential battery backup system wtih a 200 AH @48V flooded
> battery bank in the basement electrical room of a 3 story buildi
Jeff,
I would use a Power Vent by Zephyr Industries. In addition to a 12V
or 48V fan, his units have a built-in backdraft damper. Negative
building pressure under certain conditions would be a concern of
mine, so I wouldn't rely on angle to ensure exhaust always travels
Wrenches,
I'm looking at a potential battery backup system wtih a 200 AH @48V flooded
battery bank in the basement electrical room of a 3 story building. There is a
window in the electrical room. The batteries will be located about 10' from an
outdoor wall. The building is all reinforced concre
Fellow Wrenches,
The discussion about battery venting reminds me of a useful and
inexpensive program, BattMV,
for determining ventilation requirements per EN-50272. EN-50272 is a
European standard used to determine how much air flow is needed for a
room, I don't know of a equivalent standard
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