Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread John Gateley
Matthias, all: Thanks very much for the considered replies. As a Racket newbie, this gives me insight into how Racket is used to solve complex problems. Complexity exists, and require complex solutions. But often I am faced (or even have designed) complex solutions that either did not solve the

Re: [racket] Code Reuse, Object Oriented vs Functional

2013-06-21 Thread Shriram Krishnamurthi
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:57 PM, Todd O'Bryan wrote: > Whoa! I had no idea that Shriram and the rest of the Rice group were > the impetus for the distillation/clarification and naming of "The > Expression Problem." To set the record straight, since this is a public forum: We (Matthias and I) cal

Re: [racket] Code Reuse, Object Oriented vs Functional

2013-06-21 Thread Todd O'Bryan
Whoa! I had no idea that Shriram and the rest of the Rice group were the impetus for the distillation/clarification and naming of "The Expression Problem." I'm continually amazed that I've had a chance to interact with people who've had such a fundamental impact on the field. And because I came to

Re: [racket] Please help

2013-06-21 Thread Jens Axel Søgaard
Hi Saad, 2013/6/21 Saad Bashir : > I have downloaded the Racket v 5.3.5 (June 2013). > teachpack: the teachpack 'image.ss' was not found This may or may not work - but it is worth a shot. In the menu "Language" menu choose the menu item that removes all the teach packs. Now click the run butto

Re: [racket] Please help

2013-06-21 Thread Matthias Felleisen
Thanks, Keep posting -- Matthias On Jun 21, 2013, at 2:34 PM, Saad Bashir wrote: > Thank you for the solution. The problem is away. > > This user group is great and your personal support to every one is > tremendous. > > No better way to learn to program - I can say this after trawling

Re: [racket] Please help

2013-06-21 Thread Matthias Felleisen
Language -> Clear All Teachpacks Language -> Add Teachpack see two columns choose image from 2e column only That's it. Thanks for the report; the error message should definitely be more informative -- Matthias On Jun 21, 2013, at 2:27 PM, Saad Bashir wrote: > I have downloaded the

[racket] Please help

2013-06-21 Thread Saad Bashir
I have downloaded the Racket v 5.3.5 (June 2013). However when I open it to program (I am a beginner and using BSL to study HtDP). the following message is seen in the operation area in red as pasted below . Welcome to DrRacket, version 5.3.4 [3m]. Language: Beginning Student [custom]; memory li

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Matthias Felleisen
HtD C and S: They are in my head and it's the way I teach certain courses. It is overall an appeal to Brooks's idea of -- garage programming (truly simple, nobody can use the results) -- application programming (garage plus all other necessary artifacts: tests, UI, docs, internal/external,

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Nick Shelley
I haven't heard of HtD Components or HtD Systems before. I can't seem to find it after some quick googling (the closest I got was a draft of HtD Classes). Can you point me to these resources? I really enjoyed HtDP. Ok, after a bit more searching I found a reference to components in the intro of H

Re: [racket] Code Reuse, Object Oriented vs Functional

2013-06-21 Thread Scott Klarenbach
Thanks a lot for the responses. I really appreciate it. It's reassuring to hear many of my assumptions echoed back. And the mention of the Expression Problem has led me to uncover additional articles on the topic besides the original Krishnamurti, et al paper. Scott. Rack

Re: [racket] Racket v5.3.5

2013-06-21 Thread Matthias Felleisen
The sources are supplied so that you can experiment with the code i the book w/o having to type it in and/or copy/paste it from some e-book format. Open, edit, run. And save it somewhere else. -- Matthias On Jun 21, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Joe Gilray wrote: > How does one use the code in the "re

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Jun 21, 2013, at 8:26 AM, John Gateley wrote: > Subject for discussion: > > http://firstround.com/article/The-one-cost-engineers-and-product-managers-dont-consider# > > Interesting sentence in the middle: > > Consider DSLs, abstractions and the attraction to being the one to build a > fram

Re: [racket] Racket v5.3.5

2013-06-21 Thread Joe Gilray
How does one use the code in the "realm" collection? It is through (require ...) or just by copying the source? thanks, -joe On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:20 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > Racket version 5.3.5 is now available from > > http://racket-lang.org/ > > This is a special-purpose release

Re: [racket] Code Reuse, Object Oriented vs Functional

2013-06-21 Thread Ray Racine
The Internet is rife with stuff regarding the Expression problem. Pretty much any major language has some posting, paper or article on how it is addressed to some degree by the language in question. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem It's a can I have my cake and eat it too issue.

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Neil Van Dyke wrote: > (More embarrassing info at > "http://www.neilvandyke.org/weblog/2008/11/#2008-11-03";.) The quote about number of arguments is an aphorism by Alan Perlis. And that mnemonic is truly hilarious. Sam Racket Users list:

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Neil Van Dyke
A comment on this kind of article, and then on your question... "Managing complexity" has been a notion in software engineering for a very long time. It was a marketing tagline for a very expensive software engineering workstation thing that I worked on 20 years ago, for example. In the spi

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Sean Kanaley wrote: > > As a simple example, consider the language "Brainfuck". It would be wise to > write a DSL with it called "Scheme", where the domain is actual programming. > The user would be far more productive. Noted without comment: http://hashcollision

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Sean Kanaley
A famous Lisp programmer once said (in the context of functional programming): "For alumni of other languages, beginning to use Lisp may be like stepping onto a skating rink for the first time. It's actually much easier to get around on ice than it is on dry land---if you use skates. Till then

Re: [racket] Code Reuse, Object Oriented vs Functional

2013-06-21 Thread Hendrik Boom
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 09:39:12AM -0400, Ray Racine wrote: ... > > 4) The Expression Problem >For whatever reason one can code in OO without ever noting the > expression problem. After a bit of functional programming you note it, > even if you don't know what it's been called or the dual na

Re: [racket] Code Reuse, Object Oriented vs Functional

2013-06-21 Thread Ray Racine
Speaking from a reasonable amount of experience in "real-world" composing code in a polyphony of styles, idioms, methodologies and languages, I have reached a few (personal) conclusions. 1) Functional vs OO -> Functional by a landslide where the critical factors are Code Correctness, Maintainabili

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Todd O'Bryan
In my opinion, there are two kinds of DSLs: good ones and bad ones. Good ones feel like you're using the programming language, but it has been tailored to the problem domain. Your intuitions about using the language still work in the DSL, and the DSL manages to fill in the boilerplate that would b

Re: [racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:26 AM, John Gateley wrote: > Subject for discussion: > > http://firstround.com/article/The-one-cost-engineers-and-product-managers-dont-consider# > > Interesting sentence in the middle: > > Consider DSLs, abstractions and the attraction to being the one to build a > frame

[racket] DSLs and complexity

2013-06-21 Thread John Gateley
Subject for discussion: http://firstround.com/article/The-one-cost-engineers-and-product-managers-dont-consider# Interesting sentence in the middle: Consider DSLs, abstractions and the attraction to being the one to build a framework that gets leveraged for years. I think Racket is a differ